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> Mr rails steam sound misty unit
mallardman96
post 3 May 2011, 10:59
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i have just seen a video on YouTube about the mr rails steam sound misty unit and i was wondering how is it fitted and can it be fitted to a hornby railroad flying scotsman
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Big Dave
post 3 May 2011, 12:18
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Hi not heard of it can you give a link to it please.


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DJH584
post 3 May 2011, 12:38
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Judging by the dimensions given on this link Misty MK2 I would think not unless the entire package caan be fitted in the tender.

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David


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railstimulator
post 3 May 2011, 12:56
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There's another one like this advertised in the Hornby mag. see www.mylocosound.com for more info.

They suggest it's fitted in a wagon or coach so that the loco pulling the wagon/coach appears to be fitted with sound. There info on how to use it with DCC on that site.
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Bob129
post 4 May 2011, 11:47
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Hi Mallardman
Ive not got the Misty unit but have bought a couple of items from Mrrails.
He has a web site at www.mrrails.com which has some more information and products listed he can also be contacted by email at colin@mrrails.co.uk i have found Colin very helpful when i have sent enquiries.
Hope this helps
Regards Bob
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Graham Plowman
post 4 May 2011, 23:01
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I have heard some of these 'alternative' sound systems and looked at the youtube mentioned above and to be honest, they don't sound anything like the real thing.
Unless a sound unit is replaying a recording of the real loco it is installed in instead of synthesised sound, then quite frankly, the product is nothing more than children's toy trains. Provided it is marketed as children's toys, I don't see a problem.

This is the sort of technology that was sold in the 70's and 80's (complete with the inconvenience of tieing a loco to a wagon) and to be dishing it up these days is really not moving the hobby forward at all. I believe that one of the mainstream magazines reviewed one of these products recently and said exactly that.

There are no other products on the market which beat current DCC offerrings. My view is that if I can't do it properly, then it isn't worth doing at all. Half-measures such as these 'alternatives' are a very poor substitute.


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Moonraker
post 5 May 2011, 00:13
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Graham,

Now I just have to reply to you on that one!

First, for everyone else, let me declare that I have a financial interest in this debate as I am the manufacturer of the soundcards at www.mylocosound.com and am aware that I must not use this forum for commercial purposes.

Our products are not toys. They have been purchased by over a thousand railway modellers in the past year including one person who has bought sixteen so far. They fill a slot in the market. They have been professionally developed by an acoustics simulation engineer to give a realistic result. Our steam chuff has been recognised, by those who have made the comparison, as being significantly more realistic that that delivered by a Loksound V3.5 recording.

If you want a steam chuff, several whistle styles, firedoors closing, guards whistles blowing, injectors working, safety valves blowing, wheels screeching, etc. plus the ability to program your own sounds on a computer then DCC sound decoders from Loksound, etc. are great. Graham, I know that that is your interest and good luck to you. However, there are people out there who do not want to upgrade to DCC and just want a realistic chuff and a whistle on a DC layout. Those are my people and I offer them a product at one third the cost of a Loksound.

Each to their own but please don't call my products toys because they are professionally developed for the serious railway modeller.

Regards
Peter
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Graham Plowman
post 5 May 2011, 01:22
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Peter,

The professionalism or quality with which the products are made is not in question.

You demonstrated your product to me on my own layout side-by-side Loksound products and we both heard them and compared them.

I'm sorry, but you cannot convince me that your synthesised sound product is anywhere as good as a recording of the real thing and I don't think you should be misleading people into believing this.

The product I had demonstrated to me did not respond in a reallistic way, the sounds were generic, they were not properly synchoronised and they certainly didn't exhibit that harsh 'bark' that many steam locos had. Acoustics engineer or not, the sounds did not sound to me to be like anything reallistic that I have ever heard.
I was honestly embarrased to see the thing running round my layout and came close to asking for it to be taken off because it appeared toylike to me!

You also commented that all of my SWD/Howes Loksound diesels sounded the same. I think there are plenty of people on here who would disagree with that comment, but I would expect that comment from someone selling generic sounds because it 'minimises' the competition.

Yes, there are people for whom this product is suitable. That is not in question. It is important that they know what they are purchasing and that they are not being mislead into believing that they are getting something which is highly reallistic, because what I heard did not lead me to believe that these products are reallistic at all.

You may quote 1000's of sales, but have you though that the vast majority of those sales may be 'inquisitive' to try the product out and see if it is worth following up on ? The true measure of success would be the number of repeat sales and the magnitude of those sales.

My own personal opinion, is that it isn't your product that is the problem. It is the wording you use to promote it.

My concern is that you are advertising this as a highly professional piece of kit, developed for serious railway modellers with very reallistic sounds - indeed you state this yourself in your signoff line in your message above - but that isn't what you told my father.
By all means advertise it as proffessionally developed, but please don't mislead those of us who would consider ourselves serous modellers by telling us that this is reallistic. I have heard it myself and I personally, don't agree - I am entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours.

I think you would be better off advising as "professionally developed train sounds".

My suggestion would also be that you clearly have the ability to bring this kind of product to the market. Why not go the full-hog and develop a proper DCC sound decoder ? And at the same time, do it in a way that works with DC and places it at a price point which makes it serious competition for current DCC sound decoders - now that is a serious challenge for you!

Regards

Graham Plowman


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Moonraker
post 5 May 2011, 02:06
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Graham,

Thanks for the comments. Just a couple of things I need to note.

Firstly we get lots for repeat sales. As I said in my first post, one person has bought sixteen of them, over the period of a year, and runs them on an exhibition layout.

Our steam soundcards have both "bark" when accelerating and "coast" when slowing down. We have developed them by synthesis of actual recordings of preserved locos in the UK. Therefore I will absolutely call them realistic. I'm just not sure what you were looking for when you thought they were not.

Thanks for your view anyway.

Regards
Peter

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Graham Plowman
post 5 May 2011, 02:38
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Peter,

You demonstrated the thing to me, showing all of its features! I just stood there and listened.

What I was looking for was a match with familiar sounds - something that I would suggest that most reasonable people would be looking for.

What I found was something that was very synthesised and sounded very artificial and contrived to me.
To me, that is not reallistic and people shouldn't be mislead by advertsing that says it is.

You may well have recorded real sounds and then synthesised them, but I would contend that you destroyed them in the process! What you have done is started off with real sounds and then corrupted them in order to genericise them. That seem like a very backward step to me.

And if you started with real recordings, why not attempt to move the hooby forward by using technology to store them on the sound board and play them back ? That would give far better results than you currently do even if it didn't have all the synchronisations. But that is the key! If real sounds were used, it would be obvious what is going on and that sounds are wrong for particular locos - you couldn't sell a generic product. Corrupting the sounds enables a generic product.

It seems that my comments are supported by one of the major magazines when they reviewed it.
If I recall correctly, the term 'does not move the hooby forward' was actually a criticism of a product for the first time in a very large number of years. Magazines these days are noted for the fact that they never criticise anything!

One person has bought 16. Only one person ?

Graham


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Graham Plowman
post 5 May 2011, 05:34
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Sorry, I meant 'hobby' not 'hooby'.


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Moonraker
post 5 May 2011, 08:27
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Graham,

We are moving the hobby forward by producing affordable and realistic sound for model railways. I didn't want to say this yet but, as you may recall, we are releasing a DCC sound decoder in about a month which will retail for about one third the price of decoders like Loksound. The fact that we use synthesis makes it possible to provide a realistic sound at a low price. It also means that customers can vary the sound by changing a few CVs. I realise that you are a computer boffin and have the skills to build sound characteristics but most modellers do not have or want to have those skills. We are just catering for the average modeller with a limited wallet who wants simple but realistic sound.

Now, rather than bore everyone with this debate any more, I suggest that we settle it with a challenge.

I recall that you have a steam loco fitted with a DCC sound decoder (Loksound, I think). I can't remember the type of loco. How about recording that loco sounding its whistle and starting off and putting that recording onto this forum. MyLocoSound is adjustable so, as soon as I know the type of loco, I will set up a loco and do a similar recording which I will put on the forum. I will then find a YouTube recording of the prototype and then people can judge which is the more realistic.

Regards
Peter

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mallardman96
post 5 May 2011, 20:25
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QUOTE (Moonraker @ 5 May 2011, 01:13) *
Graham,

Now I just have to reply to you on that one!

First, for everyone else, let me declare that I have a financial interest in this debate as I am the manufacturer of the soundcards at www.mylocosound.com and am aware that I must not use this forum for commercial purposes.

Our products are not toys. They have been purchased by over a thousand railway modellers in the past year including one person who has bought sixteen so far. They fill a slot in the market. They have been professionally developed by an acoustics simulation engineer to give a realistic result. Our steam chuff has been recognised, by those who have made the comparison, as being significantly more realistic that that delivered by a Loksound V3.5 recording.

If you want a steam chuff, several whistle styles, firedoors closing, guards whistles blowing, injectors working, safety valves blowing, wheels screeching, etc. plus the ability to program your own sounds on a computer then DCC sound decoders from Loksound, etc. are great. Graham, I know that that is your interest and good luck to you. However, there are people out there who do not want to upgrade to DCC and just want a realistic chuff and a whistle on a DC layout. Those are my people and I offer them a product at one third the cost of a Loksound.

Each to their own but please don't call my products toys because they are professionally developed for the serious railway modeller.

Regards
Peter

wow ive seen youre website and the options to change the tone of the whistle a great but douse it have the option to replicate an a4 chime whistle
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Graham Plowman
post 5 May 2011, 22:04
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Peter,

QUOTE (Moonraker @ 5 May 2011, 18:27) *
Graham,

...
Now, rather than bore everyone with this debate any more, I suggest that we settle it with a challenge.

I recall that you have a steam loco fitted with a DCC sound decoder (Loksound, I think). I can't remember the type of loco. How about recording that loco sounding its whistle and starting off and putting that recording onto this forum. MyLocoSound is adjustable so, as soon as I know the type of loco, I will set up a loco and do a similar recording which I will put on the forum. I will then find a YouTube recording of the prototype and then people can judge which is the more realistic.

Regards
Peter


I accept the challenge on the condition that it is expanded to include diesels as follows:

- West Country Bulleid Pacific (the steam loco to which you refer)
- Class 121 DMU
- HST
- Warship

I can commence video work this weekend.

Graham Plowman


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Graham Plowman
post 5 May 2011, 22:10
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QUOTE (mallardman96 @ 6 May 2011, 06:25) *
wow ive seen youre website and the options to change the tone of the whistle a great but douse it have the option to replicate an a4 chime whistle


Why ?
SWD provide a sound package which is a proper recording of the real thing and not some artificially synthesised offering!

Graham Plowman


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(British outline 00 - NCE PH PRO-R, Lenz 100 - DCC Sound and computer controlled signalling/interlocking with SSI software)
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