Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> BR Shunters Wagons, What was used and how
Brossard
post 24 Aug 2011, 19:07
Post #1


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 16-August 07
From: A Bloke in Quebec
Member No.: 1,958



I've been thinking about this over the last few days. TMC announced one for early 2012 but it looks to be rather late to my taste. I gather that the wagon used was a conflat. I checked Hattons but the only conflats on offer are on pre-order. Parkside do a conflat A.

What was the livery in 1962? Conflats were used for XP traffic so I imagine they were bauxite. How were they numbered? I believe the number started with "D" (for Departmental) but was the rest of the number from when the wagon was in revenue service or did BR assign unique numbers?

Would the 08 use a shunters truck? TMC show one coupled to a 03.

My idea is, to improve slow running of these short wheelbase locos (I have both) over points, to incorporate pickups on these shunters wagons and wire them to the loco.

Any information will be appreciated.

John


--------------------
John

Go to the top of the page
 
+
34C
post 24 Aug 2011, 19:54
Post #2


In depth idiot
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,855
Joined: 31-May 07
Member No.: 1,818



I think what you are talking about is a 'runner'; wagons that were operated with the 03 and 04 shunting locos so that they did not 'disappear' from track circuit diagrams while on pointwork. (A shunter's wagon was a GW speciality, flat wagon with running boards, and a coffin like box on top in which the shunter was stored when not required...) The colour photo of a runner that I have from 1977 is a conversion from a conflat A no. B708135, painted yellow. The conflat has no floor, by the indirect evidence of highlights visible on the tops of the wheels, axles and brake rigging; presumably to prevent any attempt to make it carry a load.
Go to the top of the page
 
+
jcm@gwr
post 24 Aug 2011, 20:07
Post #3


Passed Fireman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 493
Joined: 23-January 11
From: Stevenage
Member No.: 9,710



Hi John,
I'm afraid I can't answer most of your questions [I use GWR stock only], but I do know that coupling one to
a small shunter is very common. What you are doing is exactly what they did, the shunters wagon was used
to trigger the track detection circuits as the 03 was to small on it's own! Adding extra pick-ups is the same thing,
but in reverse.
Good luck, Jeff


Go to the top of the page
 
+
Brossard
post 24 Aug 2011, 20:47
Post #4


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 16-August 07
From: A Bloke in Quebec
Member No.: 1,958



Thanks guys for the input so far. I had read that the 03 needed a permanent wagon coupled to activate track circuits when used as station pilot. The picture on TMC's website shows a conflat with wasp stripes AND a floor. It also appears to be at least piped if not vac brake fitted. There looks to be a shunter's pole on the deck. I also realised that the GWR was the only grouping railway to use shumter's wagons.

Anyway, whether for shunting or running, I'd still like to know more about what was used.

John


--------------------
John

Go to the top of the page
 
+
Trog
post 24 Aug 2011, 21:58
Post #5


Fireman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 199
Joined: 6-December 08
From: LNWR
Member No.: 4,351



QUOTE (Brossard @ 24 Aug 2011, 21:47) *
I also realised that the GWR was the only grouping railway to use shumter's wagons.

Anyway, whether for shunting or running, I'd still like to know more about what was used.

John


There were also some shunters wagons of Midland design on the LMS.


--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished.
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Brossard
post 24 Aug 2011, 22:25
Post #6


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 16-August 07
From: A Bloke in Quebec
Member No.: 1,958



QUOTE (Trog @ 24 Aug 2011, 22:58) *
There were also some shunters wagons of Midland design on the LMS.


Really! Now you are telling me something I didn't know. My field of expertise is LMS and I have an extensive library. I've never seen anything on this. Any links?

I must be careful not to get sidetracked.

John


--------------------
John

Go to the top of the page
 
+
7113
post 25 Aug 2011, 12:12
Post #7


Chief mouser
Group Icon


Group: Members
Posts: 11,771
Joined: 24-May 06
From: The Isle of Thanet
Member No.: 706



I have, somewhere, a photo which shows a match truck attached to an 03 or 04 shunter. I believe this was taken on the Eastern region. Match trucks were possibly the ony BR wagons never to carry a revenue earning load, being designed to work with well wagons carrying overhanging loads. These certainly only ever carried "D" numbers.

QUOTE (Brossard @ 24 Aug 2011, 20:07) *
Would the 08 use a shunters truck? TMC show one coupled to a 03.

To the best of my knowledge - no, they weren't required with the 08's.

Regards


--------------------
Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever
A Penguin is for life - not just elevenses
Dave Saffery
Haine Road
Nether Sennett
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Trog
post 25 Aug 2011, 21:12
Post #8


Fireman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 199
Joined: 6-December 08
From: LNWR
Member No.: 4,351



QUOTE (Brossard @ 24 Aug 2011, 23:25) *
Really! Now you are telling me something I didn't know. My field of expertise is LMS and I have an extensive library. I've never seen anything on this. Any links?

John



Page 191 of LMS Wagons Volume 2


--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished.
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Brossard
post 25 Aug 2011, 21:42
Post #9


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 16-August 07
From: A Bloke in Quebec
Member No.: 1,958



Ahhh yes, I see. Tucked away in the back. I don't have the Midland wagon reference so that's where it will need to stay for the time being.

Thanks for the info.

John


--------------------
John

Go to the top of the page
 
+
Graham Plowman
post 26 Aug 2011, 03:13
Post #10


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,922
Joined: 5-September 06
Member No.: 869



QUOTE (34C @ 25 Aug 2011, 05:54) *
I think what you are talking about is a 'runner'; wagons that were operated with the 03 and 04 shunting locos so that they did not 'disappear' from track circuit diagrams while on pointwork. (A shunter's wagon was a GW speciality, flat wagon with running boards, and a coffin like box on top in which the shunter was stored when not required...) The colour photo of a runner that I have from 1977 is a conversion from a conflat A no. B708135, painted yellow. The conflat has no floor, by the indirect evidence of highlights visible on the tops of the wheels, axles and brake rigging; presumably to prevent any attempt to make it carry a load.


It wasn't just 03's and 04's that 'disappeared' between track circuits. All short wheelbase locos had this same problem.

I believe that runners and shunters wagons had largely disappeared by the 70's and 80's and therefore, 08/09's were paired with brake vans whenever they ran on the main line for this reason.

Graham Plowman


--------------------
Graham Plowman
(British outline 00 - NCE PH PRO-R, Lenz 100 - DCC Sound and computer controlled signalling/interlocking with SSI software)
Go to the top of the page
 
+
7113
post 26 Aug 2011, 08:15
Post #11


Chief mouser
Group Icon


Group: Members
Posts: 11,771
Joined: 24-May 06
From: The Isle of Thanet
Member No.: 706



QUOTE (Graham Plowman @ 26 Aug 2011, 04:13) *
08/09's were paired with brake vans whenever they ran on the main line for this reason.

Sorry Graham, but I have to disagree on that. Back in the 70's there was a regular 08 working every morning to Ramsgate and Margate from, I believe, Ashford. That never had a brake van.

Regards


--------------------
Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever
A Penguin is for life - not just elevenses
Dave Saffery
Haine Road
Nether Sennett
Go to the top of the page
 
+
spet0114
post 26 Aug 2011, 09:16
Post #12


Foreman
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 850
Joined: 24-October 09
From: United Kingdom
Member No.: 6,609



QUOTE (7113 @ 26 Aug 2011, 08:15) *
Sorry Graham, but I have to disagree on that. Back in the 70's there was a regular 08 working every morning to Ramsgate and Margate from, I believe, Ashford. That never had a brake van.

Regards


Likewise, I used to see 09's passing through Poole and Parkstone (presumably heading for either Bournemouth or Eastleigh?) running solo with no sign of a brake van.

Cheers
Adrian


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Graham Plowman
post 26 Aug 2011, 10:08
Post #13


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,922
Joined: 5-September 06
Member No.: 869



I would suggest that there were a number of reasons for exceptions, principally orientated around what the track circuiting configuration was on the given line and whether it had gaps - which could occur across pointwork.

Graham Plowman


--------------------
Graham Plowman
(British outline 00 - NCE PH PRO-R, Lenz 100 - DCC Sound and computer controlled signalling/interlocking with SSI software)
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Brossard
post 26 Aug 2011, 12:58
Post #14


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,174
Joined: 16-August 07
From: A Bloke in Quebec
Member No.: 1,958



Looks like I started something here. Great discussion. However, my particular interest is 1962 and what was going on with shunter/runner wagons then. I trolled through my collection and found a GWR conflat which I can convert with phosphor bronze wipers. Trog got me thinking and maybe a scratch built ex MR/LMS shunter's truck with wipers is in order.

I went through Geoff Kent's wonderful 4mm Wagons but he doesn't mention shunter/runner wagons.

I think Graham said that even 08 locos might have used runner wagons so that's a good enough excuse for me.

I'll take some pictures when I'm done.

Cheers

John


--------------------
John

Go to the top of the page
 
+
leoeile
post 26 Aug 2011, 20:37
Post #15


Fireman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 136
Joined: 9-July 11
From: FROM THE BOGS OF IRELAND
Member No.: 10,732



QUOTE (7113 @ 26 Aug 2011, 09:15) *
Sorry Graham, but I have to disagree on that. Back in the 70's there was a regular 08 working every morning to Ramsgate and Margate from, I believe, Ashford. That never had a brake van.

Regards



QUOTE (spet0114 @ 26 Aug 2011, 10:16) *
Likewise, I used to see 09's passing through Poole and Parkstone (presumably heading for either Bournemouth or Eastleigh?) running solo with no sign of a brake van.

Cheers
Adrian

I am sure I used to see brake vans with shunters running around. Anyway I am planning to use a brake van for an 08, first to get the extra pickups, then perhaps to put a speaker in. Problem with using wipers for pickup on a brake van is to get wheels to go round, the brake van is to light, I am planning now to try springs around the axel. If allthis works I'll have a go with an 03

Les
Go to the top of the page
 
+

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS    Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 2nd September 2014 - 09:07