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> Wiring Passenger car lighting kits on DCC
Milllsy
post 13 Feb 2014, 09:30
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Hi,

There are a lot of passenger car lighting kits on eBay at the moment and I have often wanted to do it. However, having converted to DCC how do you wire the kits without a decoder (or is it possible)? I thought about a diode on either side of the inputs in a forward forard setting to allow only AC to go one way. Would this work?
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Milllsy
post 13 Feb 2014, 10:28
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Got it, a diode bridge. You have to love the internet. Anyone done it? Any tips for 13.8v AC. Will the cars draw too much current out of an NCE Powercab to run 3 or more locos? I have had four running at once on the Powercab without increasing the power supply.
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TimP
post 13 Feb 2014, 12:00
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Millsy - There are a some choices -

1. Simple diode bridge as you identify. Ideally the circuit will include a capacitor to stop flickering - nice instructional vid here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiZ6Jj3OoK8

This leaves lights on all the time but is simple and cheapest option.

2. Decoder controlled -

If you are doing this the advantage (obviously) is that you can switch lights off and on from the controller. The downside is it becomes costly.

If you want to do this I suggest you buy DCC Concepts Flicker Free 2 device to provide the capacitor and rectifier and interface to the decoder.


3. As a variant of the above you could connect cars together to have one decoder (and one flicker free) control multiple cars...this has its own issues

I have put my (cack handed) experiences up on my website of such an installation.

http://www.pearsonsweb.com/Modelling/mnth092011.shtml
http://www.pearsonsweb.com/Modelling/item10102011.shtml

as for current it depends on LEDS - for standard less they might use perhaps max 20mA (prob a lot less) so 50 LEDs would take max 1A look up the details for the LEDs you are using.

Best

Tim




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Milllsy
post 14 Feb 2014, 07:36
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Good work and thanks. I have a tonne of rolling stock so wanted to just play around without going down the decoder route. Although, I just got my upgrade to the NCE for version 1.65 and it looks promising. Still a little clunky but I am getting there. The possibilities with the ability to run so many decoders is pretty exciting.

I wanted to take some old SBB carriages as a start a try and non DCC method. I think you are right about the capacitor. Now I just need to do the maths on four LEDs, the resistor and capacitor plus circuit mix and then figure out power collection from the wheels and wire positions.
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Milllsy
post 14 Feb 2014, 07:41
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This is what I will try first:

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/flicker_free_JB.htm
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Milllsy
post 23 Feb 2014, 05:11
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OK. I tried that flicker free circuit. Here is the interesting thing. I set it up using five 3mm, 5000MCD LEDs first using a 473 Ohm res. Not bright enough so I reduced to a 260, then a 132 now a 62 (all 1/2 watt resistors). Still not bright enough. I filed the tips (all the way around) and the dispersion is better. And, I still get a flicker.

I get that the output will be 5.5v because of the way the zen diode is placed and hence get that the original 473 was crazy (but Jim was using 1k Ohms).

Any thoughts?
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Richard Johnson
post 23 Feb 2014, 08:49
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*** And I would probably use even more resistance.

The circuit has to balance or flicker-free lighting will not happen. Brighter LED types are most definitely not the way to go - 5000 MCD was not a great decision.

I do not in any way understand your seeking a very bright light - I have travelled on the same trains you mentioned and a realistic equivalent definitely doesn't need it... sometimes memory is deceptive. Standard LEDs driven at the right level will give a better and more realistic result.

Unless you are purposely creating a Christmas toy train look, even brighter modern coaches should not appear too bright... in some senses, light scales too.

I would think 2mA would be the real consumption level per LED if your choices are correct throughout.

Enough hints. I have spent many hours working on getting coach lighting and flicker-free designs correct over the past year to create a new range. You'll see it in March with luck. No it will not be cheap, but it will be very good at what it does. :-)

Richard


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Milllsy
post 28 Feb 2014, 06:52
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZvhE_tolk

If you take a look at the above YT clip you'll see what I am after. I have perfected it with the 5000 mcd's on the light pipes. Keep in mind the light pipes are not perfect and the angle on the pipes makes a difference. Hence the output is more like a 1000 or less.

As regards the carriages, I need a diffuser so am looking at cutting strips off tupper ware and mounting the led's on top of that. Hence, you need some grunt. I thinner plastic could probably do it so if you can think of anything household let me know. (Note that I filed the LED's and got some diffusion but not enough.

Christmas toy..... LOL but I am not that much of an amateur.

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Richard Johnson
post 28 Feb 2014, 07:53
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*** I think that the video's lighting was good - but not over bright - good exposure in the taking of it will not need much brightness.

I understood your question :-) - We'd tend to achieve it with perhaps 10~12 LED per coach rather than 1 or 2 plus diffuser, which is usually a "bulb" approach as incandescent lights consume high current compared to LEDS. BTW I do think its great when ANY modeller has a go at something like this and works it through...

I am not sure about Tupperware as a diffuser - but have a go - what about a strip of the faceted light diffuser sold for flouro light fittings? its actually quite thin but needs a sharp hacksaw blade and care so it does not shatter.

A new flickerfree range with a new approach to the look for interior lighting that will put a huge smile on modern image modellers faces (as well as a new range of our usual "targeted for earlier transition/steam era stuff") will all be released probably April... controllable too, with or without the complication of digital depending on preference.

Coincidentally it will be able to be brighter than our FF3 range if needed... :-) :-)

Richard



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Anthony James
post 8 Mar 2014, 03:51
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Dear All

I have looked and looked at LED lighting but now have found a good and a cheap way to light up coaches IMO

There is a link to a site that has the following:

Led light strips in yellow, warm white and white, they come with a built in bridge rectifier, volume/illumination control, capacitor and even wire to connect them. You can adjust the length and they easily fit in the roof of Roco Liliput Fleishmann Brawa coaches etc, the capacitor can fit in the toilet area of the coach as well so you don't see it. The LED strip only puts out about 100ma

I have these and they are perfect, all for $4.50 You would need some wheel wipers as well which he sells but the springs are a better idea.

I also use the Viessmann electronic couplers 5048 between coaches, these are the standard Fleishmann close coupler with an electronic fitting $5.00 each (depending on where you buy them) when I have a Lokpilot 4 FX decoder with a relay in the baggage car, that way you don't need the springs or wheel wipers on every coach just the couplers, this also works perfectly but that is another story

Regards

Anthony

www.ebay.com/itm/HO-N-11-10-LED-Interior-Light-Strip-Warm-White-for-Passenger-Cars-/181061001527?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a2813a137


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Milllsy
post 14 Mar 2014, 10:35
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Funny as I know this eBay seller. His name is Peter and I buy stuff from him all the time but never saw these so I just bought 10 units (because of postage costs from the US). I will let you know how they go.
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Anthony James
post 15 Mar 2014, 23:59
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Hello

That is interesting that you know Peter. I bought 20 units and all the accessories from him, they were delivered very quickly and he even added some spares as well just in case., so it was a great deal. He also included the correct size shrink wrap which was an added bonus. They work great so let me know how it all goes

Regards

Anthony


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Richard Johnson
post 19 Mar 2014, 12:28
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*** 100mA for a coach lighting strip - that's only ten coaches to a full amp of current draw... plus the start-up load of an unregulated capacitor.

For a passenger oriented layout that is just too much. Start sets will be at their limit with a single medium length passenger train and a few locos even if there are NO DCC accessories attached, and with a full roster larger systems will be well loaded quite quickly too... No DCC system should be constantly run at close to stated maximums and lights are always constant loads, moving or not.

My strong opinion is: No coach lighting using LEDs should draw more than perhaps 1/5th of that - 20mA absolute maximum per complete coach really... and it can be done with much less power usage than that. There is just no need for them to draw so much.

Richard


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Anthony James
post 20 Mar 2014, 07:11
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Richard

The 100ma I refer to is for a whole train. i.e 7 or more coaches as each LED strip is only 14/16ma each. These are produced in Germany from a well known Model Train Manufacture and as I have stated do the job of lighting a coach at a very cheap price, they have been tested in the configuration that I have mentioned and work perfectly.

Anthony


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Richard Johnson
post 20 Mar 2014, 08:18
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***That's fine - I have no doubt that they work and for a whole train, that is fine - but that is not what you said in your post. Your initial comment intimated the current drawn at 100mA each, which is why I commented. (quote"The LED strip only puts out about 100ma")

Richard


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