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> Beyond rivet counting
andrew
post 23 Mar 2009, 17:57
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After some huffing and puffing about rivet counting under another topic, a recent article from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers' magazine might interest a few people:

http://www.profeng.com/archive/archive+200...05/22050098.htm

Dr John Bradbury Winter was a model maker with incredible skill and patience, and everything he made was simply a reduced version of the prototype. I remember reading long ago about a model he built of William Stroudley's "Como" that involved him crawling inside the tender of the original to ensure that he had every detail correct. It's currently in the Brighton and Hove Museum:

http://www.virtualmuseum.info/collections/...amp;ckid=365281


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Lancashire Fusil...
post 24 Mar 2009, 00:26
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Paul Hamilton aka "Lancashire Fusilier"
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Its quite lovely you can tell even though the pics are a little small to really pick out any detail. Definitely isn't a candidtae for weathering though is it. No-one could bring themselves to do it could they!
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madon37s
post 24 Mar 2009, 10:25
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QUOTE (andrew @ 23 Mar 2009, 17:57) *
I remember reading long ago about a model he built of William Stroudley's "Como" that involved him crawling inside the tender of the original to ensure that he had every detail correct.


It looks very nice but really some people really need to get a life outside of modelling! Each to there own though!

Kind regards

Paul


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Richard Johnson
post 25 Mar 2009, 03:14
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*** Hi Paul... a comment only because the issue "detail modeler" vs "RTR modeler" is one that sort of interests - and perhaps amuses me a bit. I am not having a go at you... just using your post as a hinge for comment.

You miss the point with your post I think.... but so do many who haven't the want to go the added detail route.

Its all about choice.

What to do, what interests the individual, what matters to him or her and how you or I choose in which way our own time will be best enjoyed within the hobby.

Adding "each to his own" after a dismissive comment only makes the comment gratuitous, it doesn't change it.

for example:

I look at your garden railway efforts and while I might possibly think "I could never be bothered or see the point in doing that in the garden" or perhaps:..... "To me it really destroys all perspective running O alongside OO" ....but I wouldn't ever consider making the comment "Paul really needs to get a life".... in fact I would remain silent.

Instead I'm quietly impressed with the fact you have gone ahead and done it - and done a good job of "capital works" to get it running and are now hopefully close to enjoying the fruit of a lot of real effort..... even though its not how I would do it nor is it to my own "modeling quality preference".... Overall my background thought is in fact that now you have taken all that trouble to enjoy the hobby the way you want to... That I hope you get what you were looking for out of it.

Or perhaps... another example:

I see on forum another modeler doing it his way and enjoying it but getting it totally wrong. (not in fine detail... thats a state of mind thing - but in the macro - for example, a "wagon ramp fed coaling stage" plonked down with no ramp for the wagons to get the coal into it... and no space to fit one)... Or a structurally incorrect retaining wall... or something illogical.

Its a glaring error that stands out to ME but I will rarely criticise directly and only very rarely comment... and then only then suggesting a change or technique that may lead to a better result, never jumping on errors, because improvement comes from positive support, not being dumped on.

However:

I will have no hesitation in criticising models - that is, badly done "off the shelf" or RTR models... or being honest when I see a product I think is of poor quality or inaccurate.... or correcting factual error. If its a model built by another modeler, I will and do sometimes make positive improvement suggestions - but not ever as a gratuitous criticism..... only as a means of factual correction or positive support.

Difference and tolerance of difference in aspirations, knowledge and skills is what allows the hobby to prosper.

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The nub of it:

I Guess I hook onto this issue often and give it an airing as find it constantly curious that those who like trains but do not mind about the detail are constantly making negative comments about the people or more specifically the approach of people who DO like or care about detail, historical accuracy or believability.... While in general, those hands on modelers who always strive for reality and accuracy usually take a fair bit of care to not offend the person and really only seem to comment on the models or the techniques.

A light hearted challenge for you:

Find an example on MRF where a member with a desire for accuracy has derided or suggested being an out of the box modeler is undesirable or that somewone who likes just running trains his way needs to get a life.... Then look to see just how often a focus on model quality or detail is greeted with the phrase "rivet counting".

Keep up the garden railway thread - its enjoyable!

Kind regards

Richard


QUOTE (madon37s @ 24 Mar 2009, 19:25) *
It looks very nice but really some people really need to get a life outside of modelling! Each to there own though!

Kind regards

Paul


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madon37s
post 25 Mar 2009, 08:01
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Hi Richard

Many thanks for your kind words on my garden railway (update soon on its way).

Can I say that as a case in fact I do actually agree with what you say and that modelling is a case of "personal goals" and not what should please other people. I was merely expressing (somewhat directly) i suppose that there is life outside of railway modelling and to be fair I did also say "each to their own".

I would like it known that at NO point do I wish to put down modellers that wish to go that extra mile in their quest for "accurate modelling". I also would like to add that I actually admire those who can do this. I think if you look at my posts on this site you will find that I do nothing if not "encourage" people to do there best and in many cases applaude what they have done. In fact to go further on this note I have been round to a member of this forums house and had a look at his model railway and given much advice on the best course of action to help him "enjoy" his hobby.

May I end this post with an apology to all those out there that may have been offended by my "tongue in cheek" comment and be assured that in future I shall keep any negative thougths to my self.

On a lighter note Richard may I say a huge thankyou to you for helping me with my wiring on my shed layout, It has worked a dream ever since.

Kind regards

Paul



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Kind regards

Paul


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Best day of my life = Getting married to Sue my wife. Second best day of my life = Riding behind 37429 in Regional Railways livery thrashing away on the North Wales Coast line with my best mate.

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andrew
post 27 Mar 2009, 17:39
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The point of the first post here was really just to show that model building at its finest can become an art form that we can all enjoy, regardless of our own skills. When I see something like Winter's models I simply sit back to enjoy the craftsmanship and artistry that are far beyond anything I can aspire to. They are incredibly beautiful models - that's all.


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