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> Triang Hornby D5572 A1A-A1A
K9-70
post 29 Mar 2009, 15:18
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The more common model of the Brush Type2 in experimental livery was D5578 released between 1965 & 1967 of which 10,000 was produced.
However, a while back, I picked up this model of the Triang Hornby Brush Type2 A1A-A1A but sporting the number D5572 instead of the more popular D5578 and also with a grey roof instead of the usual white roof.
From reading various books on Triang, I do know that the heat printing tool used for printing the numbers was probably broke and in for repairs, and rather than stop production of the model, the heat printing tool used for printing D5572 on the green locomotives was used instead.
What I'd like to know is, was this version of the loco sold with the grey roof when the D5572 number was used instead of the more common white roof version.
One more point, the colour of blue used in the lower model of the Brush Type2 is a darker shade of blue than the top model.


1967 R357 D5578 Brush Type2 A1A-A1A


196? R357 D5572 Brush Type2 A1A-A1A

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sarah
post 29 Mar 2009, 18:42
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Two things come to mind.

One is that I think the roof is a separate part, and so could have either got swapped Post Purchase, or maybe the factory had a shortage of white roofs at one time?

The other, is that the different shade of blue could be "Electric" blue, and the crest is "Wrong" as the EB version "should" have the "Double Arrow" Logo (Pat Hamilton's Books.)


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K9-70
post 29 Mar 2009, 20:05
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Hi Sarah,

I've had a quick check of the Brush Type2's that I have in my collection, and both of the models shown are from the Tri-ang moulds. This can be identified by the four steps leading to the roof filler cap at the No.1 cab end. The Triang Hornby version only had three steps.

I have five models in total in this livery, four are of the EB with the white roof. Two of them boxed and the other two not, and this one, the odd one out.

The lower model is the odd one out, as it has been produced in a darker shade of blue, BR Blue ? but with a grey roof and numbered D5572. In fact, I've never seen a Tri-ang or Triang Hornby locomotive in this shade of blue before. A possible preproduction model before Tri-ang produced it in 1965 in E/B livery with a white roof as this model looked too dull?.

It is possible as you've already quoted that the roof could have been changed by the previous owner, but doesn't explain why the blue is so dull.

The crest is correct for both models as the image shown in the book The Story of Rovex Vol.1 on page 159.

The double arrowed version was released in 1967, first in E/B and then in 1968 in R/B.
I have both versions of these models in the RS51 Freightmaster set.
The 1967 model is still sealed in the RS51 Freightmaster set, though the outer box is a bit tatty.

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SRman
post 30 Mar 2009, 08:20
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D5578 in real life was one of two Brush type 2 locomotives used for livery experiments. D5578 received an all over blue livery with no white lining - not sure of the roof colour though - and D5579 received a golden ochre livery with grey roof and off-white lining as per normal Brush 2s.

Triang must have decided the blue was interesting but too dull, so produced the D5578 model with white roof and lining.

I have never seen the blue D5572 variant before. It does look from your photo to be BR blue rather than the lighter, brighter blue of the "standard" model. Are you positive it has not been painted at some time? As others have said, the roof could have been substituted with a grey one, either in the factory or at some time after sale.

Whatever else, you have a very intriguing model, definitely out of the ordinary. I, for one, will be interested in anything else you discover regarding this model. cheers.gif
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K9-70
post 30 Mar 2009, 19:53
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I've only seen one colour photo of D5578 and that is on the Rail Blue site
http://www.railblue.com/rail_blue_history.htm
The blue is described as Chromatic Blue, with red buffer beams and a black roof. Also, a yellow warning panel painted on the cab ends. Due to the angle the photograph was made, it's impossible to tell if there's a crest on the bodyside or not.

I have double checked my model of the blue D5572, and it's definitely not painted. The plastic glazing strip also shows no signs of having been removed. The wheels fitted to the power bogie and trailing bogie have a far finer flange rather than the heavier flange that was fitted to the production models.

I think what I have got here is a preproduction model from the original R357 Brush Type 2 mould, and fitted with the grey roof (headcode 4CO1), before Tri-ang released the model in E/B livery with the white roof instead. Maybe one produced for a model railway show to gauge the public's reaction to the proposed livery before releasing it for sale?

I'll keep you informed if I find out any more information about this model.

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SRman
post 31 Mar 2009, 08:48
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You may well have the pre-production one there, K9-70. If it is then it may be quite valuable, and certainly a collector's piece.

The real D5578 as originally outshopped had no yellow warning panel - in fact, I believe the blue and the golden ochre were part of the early visual warning tests that resulted in the yellow panels being adopted. It is highly probable that the yellow panel was added at a later date, before repainting into standard livery.
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sarah
post 31 Mar 2009, 18:01
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Don't forget, the very first (4,000) Tri-ang Brush Type 2s released were D5578 in all over blue, with"Duck Egg Blue" Window surrounds, and no yellow warning panel (The only examples released without yellow panels.) (BR late crest.)

Tri-ang then released D5572 (and a few D5578) in the "standard" green, with lining and yellow panels (BR late crest.).

Headcodes used are 9D80, and also "frequently used" 4C01.

Pat Hammond does state that in 1965 3,000 blue locos were made, and a further 7,000 in 1966. So, perhaps the blue plastic used changed with the batches, and the odd one is from the smaller, first, batch?


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K9-70
post 5 Apr 2009, 09:57
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Yes, I missed that point in the book, so it's possible that my blue loco with grey roof, D5572 is one of the first batch of *3,000 blue locos that was made in 1965 using the green D5572 numbering tool due to either the D5578 numbering tool not being ready or broken.

It could also be that the first 3,000 locos was produced as D5572 with a grey roof and a change of number and white roof added later was produced from 1966 by Triang Hornby.

It could also explain why mine was fitted with a grey roof rather than the more common white roof.

Either way, you'll have to agree, it's a rare model number in the XP64 livery with a grey roof fitted instead of the more common D5578 white roof version.

If Pat Hammond, or anyone from Hornby is following this article, I would love to hear their views on this version of my model.

*was the first batch of 3,000 blue locos produced in 1965, produced in the earlier 1962/63 all over electric blue livery with duck egg blue windows surrounds, or in the XP64 livery ? The book "The Story of Rovex Vol.1" is not clear on this.

K9-70

Ps; has anyone got a GREEN D5578 that they are willing to part with ? I need this one to complete my collection of the R357 Brush Type2 that Tri-ang, later T/Hornby & Hornby produced between 1962 & 1976
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sarah
post 5 Apr 2009, 18:18
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QUOTE
(From Pat Hammonds Rovex Vol.1) In 1965 R357 was available in (SNIP) green version D5572 (sometimes found as D5578) and one in experimental blue with white lining and a white roof. This carried the number D5578 (SNIP)


This suggests that the "3,000 blue ones" were as above.


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bypassm6
post 5 Apr 2009, 18:42
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I've only got 5572 in green with the four steps and a dead motor. Does any one know where I can get a new motor for it as it looks the part otherwise. sad.gif
ken
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K9-70
post 5 Apr 2009, 19:30
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Hi Ken,

Ebay's your best bet for a 2nd hand motor for your Tri-ang R357 Brush Type 2. The R357 was last produced by Hornby Railways around 1976, so I think it would be impossible to get a brand new motor for it.
I have around 20+ examples of the R357 including two of them still sealed in the box, so to speak. Give me a couple of days to sort out a decent runner from the spare ones I have.

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spet0114
post 3 Sep 2010, 17:08
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Does anyone know if the change in the number of bodyside steps happened at the same time as the revision to the back of the non-powered bogie?


Cheers
Adrian


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K9-70
post 3 Sep 2010, 19:01
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QUOTE (spet0114 @ 3 Sep 2010, 18:08) *
Does anyone know if the change in the number of bodyside steps happened at the same time as the revision to the back of the non-powered bogie?


Cheers
Adrian


The change in the number of bodyside steps was around 1966/67 when Triang Hornby introduced the green and blue models both numbered D5572.

1967 Triang Hornby Brush Type 2 R357 D5572.
I believe a small number of this Triang Hornby matt green version of D5572 was made. Also note, the power bogie is incorrectly moulded in that the steps that should be below the cab door has been moulded at the rear of the bogie instead.
The revision to the non powered bogie extra pick-up's fitted to improve slow speed running over points etc, was introduced by Hornby Railways in 1972.

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spet0114
post 15 Sep 2010, 21:32
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Hmm, this is turning into quite an interesting topic.

If you read Pat Hammond's books, you come away (or at least I did) with the distinct impression that the loco in lined matt green (D5572) and in lined experimental blue (D5578) were both made until 1967 at which point both were discontinued in favour of D5572 in the new corporate blue/yellow livery (albeit using electric blue instead of monastral blue) from 1968 onwards. The fact that there are lined matt green locos with 3 steps, means either that Triang-Hornby had a bout of presience and adapted the mould before lauching the corporate livery, or that the corporate livery and the lined green models overlapped for a bit. Either way, the 3-hole green locos are presumably in the minority. The next logical question would be whether or not the lined blue D5578's ever turn up with three holes? All the ones I've seen so far have four. Maybe the corporate blue loco replaced the experimental lined blue one, but the green one outlived it?

On another point, I notice that the green loco shown in the previous post has the 'backwards' casting for the power bogie. I too have one of these locos, but it is a four-hole lined blue D5578 version (i'll post a pic if anyone's interested). Now obviously, the motor bogies can be swapped over, so this may all be spurious, but the fact that there are different versions of the loco, each with the same error in the bogie casting tend to imply that the reversed bogies were a fairly long-lived problem, rather than a problem confined to, say, one or two batches of bogie castings. Again, food for thought....

Cheers
Adrian

Ps. Have you noticed that the two plastic prongs that keep the internal weight in place were changed and lengthened at some point?


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K9-70
post 19 Sep 2010, 13:15
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Ps. Have you noticed that the two plastic prongs that keep the internal weight in place were
changed and lengthened at some point?

Yes, I've read Vol1 of the Rovex Story by Pat Hammond, a very interesting read indeed.
Pat Hammond also has a short article on the Brush Type 2 in the Hornby Collectors magazine
No.44 at the link below.
http://static.hornby.com/files/collector-44-277.pdf

From reading both articles, I think it's safe to say that Triang Hornby released the matt green and
experimental blue versions with the four steps until 1967 before modifying the mould to three steps
for the BR Blue model. AFAIK; none of the experimental lined blue one's D5578/5572 had this modification.
It could be that the reason for the missing step was that Triang Hornby were unable to make the D5572
number small enough to fit between the steps when they introduced their BR Blue version in 1967.

I think the backward casing moulding was a error made during the casting and possibly due to a
large quantity being produced like this Triang Hornby decided it was cheaper to use them up rather
than scrap the bogies and start production all over again.

I'm not sure when the plastic prongs were lengthened, but it was done so as a second extra weight
could be added to help stop the rear bogie from derailing over the points etc.

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