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> Help needed -Coaches visiting Liverpool Lime Street early 1960's
delvaux
post 8 Feb 2012, 15:17
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Help needed - what types of coaches (apart from BR Mk 1's) would be visiting Liverpool Lime Street in the early 1960's.
Would main line coach sets be related to regions and therefore would each coach on a particular train have the same prefixed letter or was it a complete mixture?

Would you have southern green and western chocolate and cream coaches visiting the station? What about other regions locos?

I was never a train buff when younger but am a late developing modeller. collector. Any help would be appreciated - thanks.


Derek
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nick lamkin
post 8 Feb 2012, 16:08
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You will really need to work from archive pictures. But the majority of internal LM workings would be ex LMS coaches and Br Mk1's. Through services from the Eastern/North Eastern may be either ex LMS or ex LNER coaches and sometimes a mixture. Also through services from the SR or WR may be formed of ex GWR or ex SR vehicles and the MK1 vehicles may be in regional colours. The reason I say 'may' is that quite often these workings were shared between the regions and the coaching sets from the relative regions would pass each other on route. Sometimes a rake of say ex LMS vehicles would be strengthened by a coach from a different region.
Bear in mid also that the newer ex LNER and ex SR stock would have pullman gangways and the ex gWR and ex LMS stock would have the older bellows type and you needed an adaptor flange to join them.

Does this help?
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Vespa
post 8 Feb 2012, 16:31
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QUOTE (nick lamkin @ 8 Feb 2012, 16:08) *
You will really need to work from archive pictures. But the majority of internal LM workings would be ex LMS coaches and Br Mk1's. Through services from the Eastern/North Eastern may be either ex LMS or ex LNER coaches and sometimes a mixture. Also through services from the SR or WR may be formed of ex GWR or ex SR vehicles and the MK1 vehicles may be in regional colours. The reason I say 'may' is that quite often these workings were shared between the regions and the coaching sets from the relative regions would pass each other on route. Sometimes a rake of say ex LMS vehicles would be strengthened by a coach from a different region.
Bear in mid also that the newer ex LNER and ex SR stock would have pullman gangways and the ex gWR and ex LMS stock would have the older bellows type and you needed an adaptor flange to join them.

Does this help?

I am sure that this is absolutely correct as many ER trains went into Lime Street during a day. Leeds Liverpool trains were common and also SC coded stock from Scotland, possibly behind a Clan class loco. Trains from the WR did go there and Birkenhead. Without trying to be repetive this excellent site may help too.... http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page16.htm I regularly refer to it along with my books and videos.
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Long funnel ...
post 8 Feb 2012, 22:53
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Ah Lime Street in the fifties!
I was a student in L'pool in the last half of the 1950s and travelled regularly back from there to Manchester (there were at least 3 ways of going between the two cities by rail at that time).
My favourite were the Newcastle corridor expresses (more frequently from Lpool Exchange to Victoria, but also Lime Street to the Man Exchange end of the long platform linking through to Man Victoria) that went via Stalybridge and Huddersfield. These often had NE blood and custard or maroon Gresley stock hauled by a Patriot.
Then the Trans Pennine Swindon built DMUs took over and you could sit up front and watch the track ahead through those amazing sheer sandstone cuttings.
Alternate days there would be the SR green stock of the Sunny South express down to the south coast resorts.
Football specials were another source of all sorts of interesting workings.
No limit really to what you could run.

LF&T
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delvaux
post 9 Feb 2012, 07:50
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Thanks Nick, Vespa and Longfunnel for the really useful and varied information. Nicks detail, Vespa's practical help (I'll check out the website you mentioned) and Long Funnels neo poetic rememberings. I really appreciate it.

Derek
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Vespa
post 9 Feb 2012, 10:01
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Derek I see you are North Cheshire? can you say where? if not publically on here pm me.
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dwb
post 9 Feb 2012, 20:06
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QUOTE
the Newcastle corridor expresses (more frequently from Lpool Exchange to Victoria, but also Lime Street to the Man Exchange end of the long platform linking through to Man Victoria) that went via Stalybridge and Huddersfield. These often had NE blood and custard or maroon Gresley stock hauled by a Patriot.


That and the mention of the David Hey site prompts me to suggest that you check for photos of Liverpool bound/from expresses at other major stations along the routes. The Liverpool / Newcastle expresses passed through Leeds City where the loco was changed from LMR to ER and vice/versa. The coaches of course would stay the same so should give you some clues as what you can run. I am sure I have seen photos of a couple of class 5 (eg Black 5 and Jubilee) double heading trains out of Leeds towards the Pennines. Scots and Patriots were usually left to manage alone.

David


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delvaux
post 11 Feb 2012, 09:37
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Hi Vespa, I live between Liverpool and Manchester

Best wishes
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Vespa
post 11 Feb 2012, 10:01
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QUOTE (delvaux @ 11 Feb 2012, 09:37) *
Hi Vespa, I live between Liverpool and Manchester

Best wishes

The village of Warrington no doubt. You may know the place! biggrin.gif
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Long funnel ...
post 11 Feb 2012, 12:05
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QUOTE (Vespa @ 11 Feb 2012, 10:01) *
The village of Warrington no doubt. You may know the place! biggrin.gif

Is that the place that hopped over the Mersey into Cheshire because it thought it sounded posher?

LF&T
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delvaux
post 11 Feb 2012, 12:37
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Hi Vespa - not quite as posh and more westward!

Derek
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Vespa
post 11 Feb 2012, 13:06
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QUOTE (Long funnel & tiresome @ 11 Feb 2012, 12:05) *
Is that the place that hopped over the Mersey into Cheshire because it thought it sounded posher?

LF&T


The town funnily enough is still, in law, in Lancashire and only gets Cheshire by some weirdo boundary rules.( http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/9..._in_Lancashire/ ) Nothing in Warrington is posh apart from the crackpot who called part of it's town centre "The cultural quarter" This includes the Parr Hall, an art centre, solicitors offices and a police station. The real cultural quarter is in the centre where every night practically you can see drunken yobbos and get beaten up for free!! A sad indictment for a once proud industrious town.


QUOTE (delvaux @ 11 Feb 2012, 12:37) *
Hi Vespa - not quite as posh and more westward!

Derek


Widnes??
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kristopher1805
post 11 Feb 2012, 17:55
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Do not forget the CLC which was part owned by the GCR, Midland and GNR but which eventually was taken over the the London Midland region, they promptly took off the Director D11's and substituted compounds, big mistake and the Directors were quickly put back to work, these trains used older GC and LNER stock but the hourly expresses to Manchester Central were legendary.

Eric Treacy before he became Bishop of Wakefield took lots of photos near Edge Hill and Lime Street where he was a Vicar(of Edge Hill) later to become Archdeacon of Halifax and then Suffrage Bishop of Pontefract, he was first published in book form in 1949. A great photo resource.

Straight off, porthole stock in blood and custard, maroon 50 foot brakes, 3 coach trains to form the 'sunny south express portion to Crewe', stove R's, midland clerestory stock, there were GWR stock on the west of england trains, in fact pretty much anything and everything seemed to have founds its way to Lime Street !
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Long funnel ...
post 11 Feb 2012, 18:30
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QUOTE (kristopher1805 @ 11 Feb 2012, 17:55) *
Do not forget the CLC which was part owned by the GCR, Midland and GNR ..... the hourly expresses to Manchester Central were legendary.
The only trouble was that L'pool Central - Man Central was really really boring, just the two stops Widnes North and Warrington Central and using suburban stock full to the gunnels. The only pay off was looking back for a quick glimpse of LNER freight types lurking at Brunswick as you shot into the tunnel below the Overhead terminus at Dingle.
Whereas from L'pool Exchange it was a corridor train (usually empty) via Wigan Wallgate - and even Bolton Trinity Str(oops) Road if you were lucky - and then down the Irwell valley into Manchester Victoria.

The exception from Central was the 1.15pm to Harwich, the famous old North Country Continental, a gloriously spacious ex Gresley corridor train with Buffet. At Guide Bridge it switched to 11kv electric haulage over Woodhead.

With rhumy old eyes... LF&T
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delvaux
post 12 Feb 2012, 08:37
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Hi Vespa

You got it right on the nail!
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