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> loco addressing problem, numbering mystery
ALAN PETERS
post 26 Jun 2020, 17:27
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Hello everybody,
I have taken the plunge and gone DCC using the Prodigy Express system. I have chipped all my dcc ready locos (all diesel) with most conversions running successfully apart from a ViTrains class 47 with 8 pin bachmann decoder that will only run on default
setting 3 although acceleration/ deceleration etc works normally. My local model shop lent me a spare Hornby decoder to try but this is exactly the same, it will not accept address 0844 even though it shows on the handset. To add to that today I took delivery of the new Bachmann class 158 with the recommended plux22 21pin decoder. This again will only run on default 3 with other functions working, although loco number does show on handset but nothing works not even the directional lights. What could I be doing wrong as my first 5 locos including 2 dmu's are running perfectly. Programming track has been cleaned again with no change. I can put up with one loco running on default but two is impossible.
Thank in anticipation.


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If everything is going smoothly, you have obviously overlooked something!

Cheers Alan
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Julian2011
post 26 Jun 2020, 19:48
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I have never seen, let alone used Prodigy, but a Decoder needs you to select between short and long addresses, when you enter them. Given the fact that the difficult ones will only operate of a short address, your Prodigy manual will tell you how to chose between long and short addresses. There will be those who have Prodigy who might tell you, if you are patient. ohmy.gif

Julian


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Graham Plowman
post 27 Jun 2020, 05:47
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Alan,

Something to check: I seem to recall that some of the early Hornby and Bachmann decoders were only capable of two 2-digit addressing.
Are you sure you haven't got one of these decoders ?

It might also be worth swapping one of the decoders from one of your other locos that do work correctly into the Vi 47 and seeing if that works.


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Graham Plowman
(British outline 00 - NCE PH PRO-R, Lenz 100 - DCC Sound and computer controlled signalling/interlocking of Ashprington Road with SSI software)
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ALAN PETERS
post 27 Jun 2020, 10:48
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I have been searching the internet for a solution to my problem, and found a clip of someone with exactly the same problem, where he has programmed the loco on the programming track with loco address no 22, puts the loco on to main track, types in loco 22 and nothing happens. He then types in default no.3 and the loco moves at the speed setting set for loco number 22. Unfortunately there is no fix shown and no sound on the clip so I am no wiser apart from knowing that I am not alone with this problem.


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If everything is going smoothly, you have obviously overlooked something!

Cheers Alan
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butler-henderson
post 27 Jun 2020, 13:39
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I take it you are selecting the right programming function as the Prodigy Express can program on the main as well as the programming track (page 5 of the manual https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1234383/G...l?page=5#manual )? On the programming track you can also read the CVs back so program it and then read the CV back to check. You say the track is clean but what of the loco - wheels, pick ups etc ?
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Julian2011
post 28 Jun 2020, 11:25
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I went back to you OP and wondered if you set a short address as well and the 4 figure one. From what you wrote, it looks as if the decoder has not entered either long or short address, since it will operate on the manufacturer's setting [3].

Just a thought - on NCE, once you enter each of the changed addresses, it asks if you want to activate this address [1=yes; Enter=no]. If you don't select one or the other the address remains unchanged at the manufacturers. Does the Prodigy have the same?

Have you tried reading / setting the short address in CV1 and checking CV29 will tell you if Long or short Address is set.

Here is a link to CV29 calculations. http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm

Julian


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ALAN PETERS
post 28 Jun 2020, 16:47
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Hi Julian, Unfortunately there is no option on the Prodigy Express to accept or reject loco address, and programming on main does not work either. The curious thing is that when I took the loco 47844 to my local model shop, we failed to get any response from it on his Prodigy Express, but when he used a Hornby select on a different programming track it accepted the code 844 and when put back on the original track using a Prodigy Advance 2, it worked perfectly. I brought it home, put it on my programming track to put the accel/decel rates in and it won't read the chip. Hence it is still running on default 03 which I was quite happy to use until I bought a new Bachmann Class 158 (really beautiful model) and a Bachmann PLUX22 (Zimmo) decoder. This has refused to accept any code and will only run on default 03. Consequently I now have two locos on 03 which means that I have to take one off the track. Out of curiosity, I have today chipped a Bachmann 37 with code 426 and that runs ok.I am just wondering if I should have gone with the NCE powercab which was my second choice. This is really taxing my ancient box of grey matter, and as a last resort I may go back to my trusty 35year old trusty H&M Duette and rewire the layout back to DC.


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If everything is going smoothly, you have obviously overlooked something!

Cheers Alan
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34C
post 28 Jun 2020, 17:24
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QUOTE (ALAN PETERS @ 28 Jun 2020, 17:47) *
...This is really taxing my ancient box of grey matter...

The problem is that a DCC system is a 'black box'. Inside it is 'gubbins' which is not end user adjustable. Therefore it is either
bombproof reliable and will always work as expected when the instructions are followed, or it is a source of endless frustration.
That you have managed to alter a decoder address argues that you have followed the instructions correctly. If we assume that the
same actions failed to alter addresses on other decoders, then it is unreliable.

In your shoes I would return it to the retailer as 'unfit for purpose' on grounds of failure to perform reliably, and probably try a
restart in DCC with another system, to see if that performs as expected. A DCC system that works reliably is extremely good, and
I wouldn't ever contemplate a return to DC operation, such are its advantages.
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Julian2011
post 28 Jun 2020, 20:46
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QUOTE (ALAN PETERS @ 28 Jun 2020, 16:47) *
Hi Julian, Unfortunately there is no option on the Prodigy Express to accept or reject loco address, and programming on main does not work either. The curious thing is that when I took the loco 47844 to my local model shop, we failed to get any response from it on his Prodigy Express, but when he used a Hornby select on a different programming track it accepted the code 844 and when put back on the original track using a Prodigy Advance 2, it worked perfectly. I brought it home, put it on my programming track to put the accel/decel rates in and it won't read the chip. Hence it is still running on default 03 which I was quite happy to use until I bought a new Bachmann Class 158 (really beautiful model) and a Bachmann PLUX22 (Zimmo) decoder. This has refused to accept any code and will only run on default 03. Consequently I now have two locos on 03 which means that I have to take one off the track. Out of curiosity, I have today chipped a Bachmann 37 with code 426 and that runs ok.I am just wondering if I should have gone with the NCE powercab which was my second choice. This is really taxing my ancient box of grey matter, and as a last resort I may go back to my trusty 35year old trusty H&M Duette and rewire the layout back to DC.

What a puzzle, particularly in view of the fact that it works on one but not others. You shouldn't have to deal with those sort of problems with any DCC system, as they should comply to the DCC standards. I go, fully, with 34C, in that the system should work reliably and isn't "fit for purpose". If it works for one, but not all others and the decoders work with a different controller, then it is either a faulty example, or the system simply isn't "fit". The Military have a saying - if you find you are in a hole - stop digging.

If NCE was a possible choice, there is plenty of evidence online and elsewhere, that you might be well advised to return the Podigy, as not properly functioning and use the credit to replace it with the NCE, which is known for it's reliable and straightforward functions.

With sympathy
Julian




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Suzie
post 28 Jun 2020, 21:56
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When setting a long address you have to set CV29 to tell the decoder to use the long address, else it will just carry on using the short address.

On the other hand when you set a short address the decoder will automatically switch to using the short address.

It is also worth checking that you have not got a consist address in CV19. Some command stations will know that the decoder has been consisted and let you drive it on the consist address using the locos normal address, but this will not transfer to a different command station and not all command stations behave this way.


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enM
post 28 Jun 2020, 22:08
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I notice that you used 0844 and it didn't work but worked on the select with 844, these are different numbers when converted to for the binary system and the zero is likely to confuse the Express which is an entry level system. Try programming without putting a zero first. I also notice you say 03 sometimes and 3 others. I assume the express will set the number to 0000 and then not accept the 844 and then reverts to the default 3 with 0000 not being a valid number 1 being the first valid number( 0001).
Ian M
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Graham Plowman
post 29 Jun 2020, 03:16
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+1 to Suzie - the setting of CV29 will be why short addresses (default 3) are used and not long addresses.

+1 to enM - on some systems 844 and 0844 are different addresses.

Unfortunately, these are the issues one gets with some entry level systems.

One has to ask why, after DCC being around for 25+ years, some manufacturers are still building systems with these issues ?


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Graham Plowman
(British outline 00 - NCE PH PRO-R, Lenz 100 - DCC Sound and computer controlled signalling/interlocking of Ashprington Road with SSI software)
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Suzie
post 29 Jun 2020, 07:33
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844 and 0844 should be the same address, so it is a bit worrying if some systems do not think they are the same.

On systems that support all the long addresses 1-127 should always be short addresses, while 0, 01-0999, and 1000-9999 should all be long addresses.

Many systems don't support the lower long addresses to avoid confusion (but just create extra confusion!)


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ALAN PETERS
post 29 Jun 2020, 12:42
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Thank you all for taking the time to try and find a solution to this mystery. A solution has been found but not from a source that I expected, as a friend that works for BT after listening to my tales of woe asked if the handset flickered or changed info without being prompted to. I told him that it had occasionally changed some data without being told to so he suggested I try a different connecting lead to the handset and asked me if I had a spare ethernet cable. Puzzled, I looked in my box of cables and found a 2m one, which I was surprised to find that it was a straight swap, and now all is well and working, including the two re-coded locos and I now have a longer reach with the handset. I wonder how one finds this sort of information out?
Anyway thank you all again for helping out, from a now very happy DCC chappie.


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If everything is going smoothly, you have obviously overlooked something!

Cheers Alan
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Julian2011
post 29 Jun 2020, 13:35
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What a very fortunate conversation. I'm glad to see that it is sorted, it must have been extremely frustrating.

Julian


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