...

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Hump Marshalling Yards
Doug
post 18 Oct 2009, 13:30
Post #1


DT
*********



Group: Members
Posts: 4,794
Joined: 18-April 05
Member No.: 2



Reading this month's Hornby Magazine (#29 November 2009) I was interested in the article on pages 98-101 on Hump Marshalling yards.

Apparently they were popular from the '50s onwards in the UK. They solved problems associated with slammer goods yards and we an efficient and economical means to sort out large numbers of goods vehicles. Due to the general decline of goods traffic on the UK railway network. Use of longer wheel-based wagons that were not suitable for hump shunting and the overall drop in demand saw the end of these yards in the UK. Now - according to the article - a few exist only as storage yards. Not used for sorting any more.

They did continue on the continent though and are used still today in Europe and in the US to sort wagons.


Classification bowl of Kornwestheim classification yard (near Stuttgart, Germany). Photo: Rosenzweig July 2007. Source: Wikipedia.


Source: le dictionnaire visuel

So how about this idea for model railways. We all need to store and sort our railway stock. It would add a nice focal point to a layout too giving the operator something to do other than running the trains and using the Hand of God to sort the wagons.

I've actually seen a few of these in opperation on model layouts here in France and they do look great. Perfect for a model railway exhibition as they provide hours of inters to onlookers.

See this video. Fast forward to 3:45 and see the sorting in action. Swiss layout. Music is not really appropriate. Be prepared to turn it down.



How could you do it?

I suppose there are many ways to build this.

What comes to my mind are the Tillig point motors with their auxiliary outputs which can be used to fire off other points. So a chain of points can be set when a push-button is pressed that corresponds to a particular siding.



The point motors still have a free set of contacts for setting frog polarity. The LED associated on each siding could be on a control panel, it could too be linked to some scale spot lamps illuminating the siding. The schematic above can be extended to build further sidings as required.

A remote uncoupler on top of the hump could be used to detach the wagons from the shunting loco. Wagons roll down the ramp into the sidings. I've seen bristles from a brush being used to slow down model wagons.

I am going to be playing around with this idea and I'll see if I can fit it into the layout.

Anyone have any photos or example of this being used on a UK layout?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Jerry
post 18 Oct 2009, 14:34
Post #2


Ticket Collector
**

Group: Members
Posts: 33
Joined: 18-June 07
Member No.: 1,860



There was a layout of a hump [or gravity] marshalling yard exhibited at the Portobello Show in Edinburgh a number of years ago, but I can't at this distance in time remember whose it was. The main problem it had, as far as I can recall, was a lack of control over the speed of the wagons to allow for their different running characteristics.

Somewhere I've got some video footage of it in action [ At least I think I've still got it, it might have been among the stuff I lost in a computer crash a few years ago!]. Unfortunately I'm working away from home at the moment, so it would be a few weeks before I could look for it.

Jerry
Go to the top of the page
 
+
upnick
post 18 Oct 2009, 15:52
Post #3


Minister of Transport
Group Icon



Group: Plus+
Posts: 6,199
Joined: 27-December 07
From: Lancashire
Member No.: 2,300



Hi Doug,

A subject not modelled often .... a magnet fitted undertrack would work at the entrance to the hump yard to allow cars to be moved on with the correct couplers fitted to stock ........ the video is great though uncoupling quick on there.


--------------------
UPNICK.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm a busy man. I have a railroad to build.

''Building America''


Go to the top of the page
 
+
BobB
post 18 Oct 2009, 16:18
Post #4


Dogsbody
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,387
Joined: 3-July 08
From: Johannesburg
Member No.: 3,223



Auto uncoupling and un-coupling is the start of the problems; retarding diverse wagons so that they are matched to the gradient is also a significant problem. None of this prevents an accurate modelling sequence from an operational point of view but is it worth he effort ?

Unless my memory is defective, the investment in such marshelling yards was (one of) Beeching's mistakes which most of us would prefer to forget.

I suppose Dr. Beeching did propel us toward the current multiple stock operations but it didn't save the Blue Pullman. (I will buy a blue grey version of this train (inversed - grey blue) when Hornby or Bachmann or Heljen produce one to current standards.

I still prefer to forget the big marshelling yards that were a total waste of resources in Britain.

By the way, is Dr Beeching still alive; has he comented upon his legacy ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Doug
post 18 Oct 2009, 16:48
Post #5


DT
*********



Group: Members
Posts: 4,794
Joined: 18-April 05
Member No.: 2



The article in Hornby Magazine mentions Beeching. How come these yards are found in Europe and the US and are still used, but not in the UK?

The last I heard of my local French railway network was that things were going fine and that they are actually expanding their goods network hoping to get more traffic off the roads.

http://www.rff.fr/en/the-network/the-network-in-projects/


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+
chrismac
post 18 Oct 2009, 19:03
Post #6


Engine Driver
Group Icon

Group: Plus+
Posts: 562
Joined: 28-December 08
Member No.: 4,534



QUOTE (BobB @ 18 Oct 2009, 17:18) *
By the way, is Dr Beeching still alive; has he comented upon his legacy ?


Died 23 March 1985 aged 71

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Beeching he was unrepentant.

Chris
Go to the top of the page
 
+
34C
post 18 Oct 2009, 19:19
Post #7


In depth idiot
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,183
Joined: 31-May 07
Member No.: 1,818



Regarding their use in the UK, the Great Central introduced them here in 1907 at Wath. The first UK use of automated retarders was on the Whitemoor installation by the LNER in 1929. The LNER and LMS (and their earlier constituent companies) with the large majority of the UK's freight traffic were the natural users of this system, and adopted it as a means to increase efficiency. Beeching rightly recognised that if freight wagons were to be marshalled on a large scale then they were a sensible investment. What he failed to foresee was that the proportion of the nation's freight carried by rail would fall to such a low level that there would be no need for large scale wagon sorting. He was actually planning for the railway to be more successful than its' management were able to achieve.
Go to the top of the page
 
+
lost track
post 18 Oct 2009, 19:47
Post #8


Guard
***

Group: Members
Posts: 99
Joined: 9-August 09
Member No.: 6,196



QUOTE (Doug @ 18 Oct 2009, 14:30) *
Reading this month's Hornby Magazine (#29 November 2009) I was interested in the article on pages 98-101 on Hump Marshalling yards.Anyone have any photos or example of this being used on a UK layout?


I found that article interesting to Doug, the sheer scale of those yards amazed me. I recently came a cross the terms 'gravity shunt' and 'gravity run-around' whilst reading about Cowes station on the Isle of Wight.

I realise that this is on a much smaller scale but I was reading about the techniques Chris Gardener used on is website to create his layout of Cowes station

link here

That video was very impressive by the way
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Edwin
post 18 Oct 2009, 21:33
Post #9


Station Master
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,630
Joined: 11-January 06
Member No.: 492



You can still see the remains of the Beeching-era hump yards - the main structures were extremely solidly built out of concrete so unless there's been a good reason to get rid then plenty of evidence is still visible. One I've had reason to look at recently was Tyne Yard, now proposed as a factory site for the Super Express. The link below shows approximately where the hump must have been - IIRC you can see better from a passing train - and also has the bonus of a disused waggonway passing beneath.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&...d&encType=1

Go to the top of the page
 
+
br1972
post 19 Oct 2009, 06:20
Post #10


Relief Freight Controller
Group Icon

Group: Plus+
Posts: 500
Joined: 13-January 08
From: Singleton NSW Australia
Member No.: 2,362



Interesting topic 'Hump Marshalling Yards'

QUOTE (Doug @ 19 Oct 2009, 00:30) *
Reading this month's Hornby Magazine (#29 November 2009) I was interested in the article on pages 98-101 on Hump Marshalling yards.

Anyone have any photos or example of this being used on a UK layout?


Out of interest came across this article from Michael Fosters' Hornby Dublo Train Book. In 1962 Hornby Dublo collaborated with English Electric to demonstrate their 'new computer' to control a small hump yard...




At 25 000 Pounds a somewhat expensive set-up I think... biggrin.gif

As for real life, in 1973 I spent a fortnight training at Margam hump yard in South Wales...This was I believe the first electronically controlled hump yard in the UK, but the problems with the programming of consist lists into the rudimentary computer were legendary...retarders worked ok some of the time...wagons were sometimes switched into the wrong road...and there was a lot of manual intervention by the operator...The inevitable crashes and resulting large clouds of rust when wagons traveled too fast and barreled into stationary vehicles were always greeted with wild hoots of laughter and cheering...there were curses when wagons stopped short and the shunter had to push the offending vehicle by hand...not too much effort once it was rolling I might add... wink.gif From memory bogie wagons did go over the hump, the only ones been lead over coupled to the Class 08 shunter being oil tanks...Happy Days thumbsup.gif

Of course the demise of rail traffic in the late 70's heralded the end of the hump marshalling yards...good modeling project but I guess it would take up a lot of room in 00 gauge!

Cheers
Geoff rolleyes.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Brian Considine
post 19 Oct 2009, 07:14
Post #11


No Longer Active.
Group Icon



Group: Members
Posts: 13,318
Joined: 18-May 06
From: UK Margate Kent
Member No.: 702



Fleischmann used to have a factory layout with a fully automatic hump shunting yard - biggest problem is controlling the inertia to get it right visually in a model.
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Richard Johnson
post 19 Oct 2009, 07:16
Post #12


Just another modeller
Group Icon


Group: Plus+
Posts: 9,981
Joined: 19-May 06
From: Settle, UK
Member No.: 703



*** There are several modellers in the US and UK currently experimenting with RFID identification of each wagon so that the whole job can be computer linked, with trains made up as per the computers "switch list"

and

I'm sure I read of an LMS garratt once (inadvertently?) taken over one of the humps - resulting in the crew being greeted by the top of a driving wheel entering the cab....

regards

Richard


--------------------

Direct honest advice from DCC, DC & Modelling experts

Please do visit us at Unit E, The Sidings, BD24 9RP.... right behind Settle Station.
Ph +44 (0) 1729 821 080 or email to
[email protected]
Further customer service available online at:
https://www.dccconceptsforum.com
Go to the top of the page
 
+
FUNGUS
post 21 Oct 2009, 19:16
Post #13


Sporting a face of Fungal Fuzz
Group Icon



Group: Plus+
Posts: 2,578
Joined: 14-August 08
From: The Dark Side
Member No.: 3,440



Tinsley yard in sheffield springs to mind. I down loaded some video of it from you tube as I was/am thinking of building one as an exhibition layout if/when time and funds allow. Tinsley was 2 miiles long, so by my calculations a 4mm model would be 48 meters long uncompressed? An ideal progect to show of the capabilities of dcc, but a littel expensive just buying the points and motors!
Steve


--------------------
Steve




About to embark on a railway modelling adventure. BR blue to modern image. West coast mainline Wolverton area.

Can't wait for the weekend. I mean, come on, after Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F!
Go to the top of the page
 
+
kiwionrails
post 21 Oct 2009, 19:48
Post #14


Regional Controller
Group Icon


Group: Plus+
Posts: 2,702
Joined: 22-May 08
From: Cambridge or Plymouth, UK
Member No.: 3,047



QUOTE (wolverton bloomer @ 21 Oct 2009, 20:16) *
but a littel expensive just buying the points and motors!
Steve

ohmy.gif ... and track.
23.28m worth of track will be 60 times by number of tracks...
...then add on the wagons say about 5 each times by 1,000(average yard capasaty) you get 5,000


ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

Regards

Kiwionrails


--------------------
....and who said i was too young.

Cameron Dalziel

Just another teenager playing with trains. :)

My website Kiwi on Rails
And Pics
Go to the top of the page
 
+
Phil P
post 22 Oct 2009, 08:33
Post #15


Fireman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 147
Joined: 30-December 07
From: Leamington Spa
Member No.: 2,310



In anything less than 7mm scale, the wagons don't really have enough mass to roll realistically no matter how much weight you put in or how free the running is. And a 7mm scale hump is going to be massive !

The other problem is building working wagon retarders. In model form they would probably just stop the wagons dead or even derail them.

Phil
Go to the top of the page
 
+

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS    Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 4th August 2020 - 23:29