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John Webb
post 29 Jun 2020, 08:39
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 29 Jun 2020, 06:31) *

To my great surprise I found that both the 'Precipice Walk" and the "Torrent Walk" are still marked on the maps and found these:
The Precipice Walk

© Copyright Jeff Buck and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Falls on Afon Clywedog

© Copyright John Winder and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
Both seem quite reasonable matches!

But following those successes, I'm unable to match the 'Festiniog' picture. Neither Blaenau Ffestiniog nor Llan Ffestiniog (both of which are some miles north of Dolgellau) seem to bring up matches anywhere near the print. I wonder if there is some small hamlet near to Dolgellau which isn't marked on the maps?

John
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Makemineadouble
post 30 Jun 2020, 05:21
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John Webb
post 30 Jun 2020, 09:04
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 30 Jun 2020, 06:21) *

Modern ferries on this route run direct to Dublin, and are not, of course, operated by the railways. They are rather bigger than the paddle-steamer of the print:
Holyhead ferry terminal

© Copyright Gareth James and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
And some ferries are rather different in design and speed:
HSS Stena Explorer at Holyhead, Holy Island

© Copyright P L Chadwick and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 30 Jun 2020, 06:21) *

This is Thaxted in Essex, a few miles from Stansted. A wider-angle view which shows the full glory of the building on the left edge of the print:
The old town hall & church

© Copyright Row17 and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Thaxted was the terminus of a branch off the former Great Eastern line via Harlow and on to Cambridge. A pre-Beeching victim, it closed to passengers in 1952 - see http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/t/thaxted/index.shtml for the details; it was a little distance away from the town centre. The buildings survive in private ownership; this is a glimpse of them:
Thaxted Railway Station

© Copyright Alan Hawkes and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Thaxted was the home for some years of the composer Gustav Holst, noted for "The Planets Suite" in particular, which he wrote at Thaxted in 1917. One theme from 'Jupiter' Holst adapted into the hymn tune called "Thaxted".

Close to Thaxted is this windmill:
Sunset at John Webb's Windmill, Thaxted

© Copyright Gareth Hughes and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
But not owned by any close relation of mine!

John
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Makemineadouble
post 1 Jul 2020, 05:47
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that is an impressive structure (old town hall Thaxted.


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John Webb
post 1 Jul 2020, 10:05
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 1 Jul 2020, 06:47) *
that is an impressive structure (old town hall Thaxted.

I agree - I visited Thaxted about 20 years ago and it is very distinctive - I recognised the location immediately.

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 1 Jul 2020, 06:47) *

Not so easy to find the location of this print, derived from a watercolour done in 1947 by Edgar Thomas Holding, according to the 'Travelling Art Gallery' website I came across last week. According to that site it was never actually used in carriages! Major changes in industry along the Tyne, housing redevelopment etc. make it hard to locate the view in the print with certainty. I think we're somewhere near with this photo from 1982 - the ferry landing stage access bridge looks very similar to the painting:
South Shields ferry 1982

© Copyright John Stephen and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
However, the above ferry pier seems to have gone and been replaced by this one:
South Shields, Ferry Terminal

© Copyright wfmillar and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
We are looking, I think, from a point several hundred yards south of the print viewpoint with a rather wide angle lens. There has been a considerable change in the appearance of both banks of the Tyne.

John
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Makemineadouble
post 2 Jul 2020, 05:56
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very close John South Shields. Wonderful watercolor.
After that an easy one I certainly think I've seen this one a good few years ago in some carriage

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John Webb
post 2 Jul 2020, 09:15
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 2 Jul 2020, 06:56) *
very close John South Shields. Wonderful watercolor.
After that an easy one I certainly think I've seen this one a good few years ago in some carriage


I suspect the one you saw in a carriage may have been Cuneo's painting done in 1959 celebrating the Centenary of the bridge?

My choice from a number of photos:
Entering Cornwall from Brunel's Royal Albert Bridge over the River Tamar.

© Copyright Adrian Platt and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

A view of the main bridge spans:
Western end of the Royal Albert Bridge

© Copyright Stephen Craven and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Nearby, nearly under the bridge:
Children's playground

© Copyright John M and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

John
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Makemineadouble
post 3 Jul 2020, 08:03
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From the Midland section

I'm not sure what happen to the box section bridge

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John Webb
post 3 Jul 2020, 09:08
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 3 Jul 2020, 09:03) *
From the Midland section

I'm not sure what happen to the box section bridge


I suspect this is an early proposal for a line through Conway. The Chester and Holyhead Railway was set up in July 1844 and work started in March 1845, under Robert Stephenson. The bridge in the above drawing was never built - Stephenson went straight to his tubular bridge at Conway as a 'practice run' for the bigger Britannia bridge across the Menai straits. The line opened from Chester to Bangor in May 1848, and completely in March 1850.

A slightly wider angle of view:
Conwy Castle and Railway Bridge

© Copyright Kevin Williams and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

John
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Makemineadouble
post 4 Jul 2020, 07:07
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LNER

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John Webb
post 4 Jul 2020, 08:07
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 4 Jul 2020, 08:07) *
LNER


The print is a water-colour by Kenneth Steel in use 1945-55.
It's impossible to completely replicate the print. This photo shows what remains:
Rufford Abbey from the north west

© Copyright Alan Murray-Rust and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
The caption to the photo on the Geograph website gives a detailed history of the building. In summary much of the house formed from parts of the old abbey (the left and centre of the building as seen in the print) fell into disrepair during the first half of the C20, and was demolished in 1956 for safety reasons. The Jacobean wing at the far end of the house remains intact.

The house, stable block and other buildings and grounds have formed Rufford Abbey Country Park since the 1960s. They are off the A614 a mile or so south of Ollerton, and about 6 miles south of the Clumber Park junction on the A1 near Retford. I've stopped off here on a number of occasions when returning from holidays in Yorkshire and can recommend their restaurant for a better and cheaper lunch than you get at service areas on the A1 or A1(M)!

John
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Makemineadouble
post 6 Jul 2020, 07:50
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once again you suprise me well done John.
this is one of the few LSWR prints I have.

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John Webb
post 6 Jul 2020, 09:04
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QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 6 Jul 2020, 08:50) *
once again you suprise me well done John.
this is one of the few LSWR prints I have.


I must admit that as a great lover of cheese this print has a strong appeal! Bishopstoke these days is part of what we better know as Eastleigh, and there's no countryside left around the railway station. An 1872 6inch:mile map at https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343098 shows the market was to the NE of the station, then known as 'Bishopstoke Junction' - with no urban development at all, just as the print shows. Later maps show by the 1890s the market was gone, part of the area in use by the railway and the LSWR works in full swing and much urban development.
I regret the nearest view I could find of the cheese market area is nowhere as appetising - tyres are so inedible:
ATS, Bishopstoke Road

© Copyright Basher Eyre and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
The viewpoint of the photo is roughly at the junction of the road that goes behind the three-storey warehouse and across the bridge over the railway and the track to the left of the cheese market, so ATS is roughly where the left-hand half of the warehouse seen in the print is. Curiously the 1872 map does not show this warehouse; not clear if it was demolished by the time of the 1872 map or built afterwards.

John
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Julian2011
post 6 Jul 2020, 20:04
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The lack of the 3 storey building is well observed, John.

Looking at the locos depicted in the etch, they seem rather early 1800s rather than after the 1872 map. The junction on the map seems absent on the right of the etch, too, but the artist may have just styalised that into additional sidings. The absence of the Junction Hotel, in the fields to the South would tend to suggest the etch being an earlier time. However, the curiosity is why the 3 storey building had been removed, particularly in times when an existing building would have been seen as an opportunity for use/new use rather than demolishing..... Ummm?

Julian




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John Webb
post 6 Jul 2020, 20:29
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Julian - I think you are correct in that the portrayal in the print is of the market before the 1872 map, possibly not long after the London and SW Railway was formed in 1839 from the London and Southampton which had opened in 1838.

My guess is that the railway had speeded up the distribution of cheeses, and they perhaps didn't need a large warehouse to store cheeses in? Removing what looks like a quite ancient building may have given better access off the road into the market area, maybe? Cheese is one of the few commodities not mentioned under freight traffic in my books, so I'm uncertain how the railways carried it. Mechanical refrigeration came in during the 1870s and I wonder if that eventually caused the closure of the market - besides the increasing need of the LNWR to expand their facilities as the works grew.

John


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