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> Hennigsdorf Nord, Epoch IV DR layout
Greyvoices
post 5 Jan 2020, 11:09
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At last the holiday period is behind us. From the many comments being mentioned on the South Africa v England BBC online commentary I realise that for many the Sunday after New Year's Day is throw away the tree day. I eschew such nonsense as this year we have chosen the ecologically sound method of buying a tree with roots which is dutifully holding onto its needles. The only delay in moving it outside in its pot is choosing a place to put it. I await instructions from the management but she is taking her time over the decision.

What's all this got to do with model railways? The answer should be obvious; in the absence of a direct order I can get on with some modelling without complaints that I am neglecting my prime duty of obeying SWMBO. So ..........


I have done a bit more to the plattenbau concrete panels operation that I am modelling. Still needs a bit of weathering but this is the first loaded wagon. I have toned down the plastic look of the Samms wagon and put basic weathering on the cradles.

I have another 6 cradles to complete but have to modify 4 that I thought I'd completed because for some unaccountable reason (which might have something to do with age) I built them wrong. This is the price you pay for not paying attention to instructions, never seeing the original in the flesh, insufficient photographic research ... or a combination of all of the above. The cradle shown in the photograph is the first of the corrected build.


a busy dockside scene. Perhaps a bit too cluttered and I must get around to painting those IFA truck cab loads with a uniform primer (I mean all the same base colour).

There is much to do and one benefit of the holiday period was to hold at bay the work I have to do in other areas such as ........... assist various layers of local councils to respond to the EMR timetable consultation .... plus various other 1:1 railway matters. I also have to find time to progress the DR Class 03 spreadsheet that I have been discussing with 6991. He has been very helpful whilst i have been somewhat tardy.

Best regards .............. Greyvoices (alias John)


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Greyvoices
post 8 Jan 2020, 11:06
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It's my birthday which the postman acknowledges by delivering a very welcome parcel containing:


Sachsenmodelle DR type Y coach. This was a DR design intended to align the Eastern Block coaching stock with the Western UIC standards enabling through running into UIC affiliated railway countries (UIC classification type B whilst the OSSyD classification was type Y).



In 2008 I bought a two coach set of this livery, attracted to the variation from the normal overall green or latter green and cream. I found them in a model shop in Berlin. Now, years later I finally have a third blue and cream liveried coach and obviously I would like 2 or 3 more to make up a more typical rake. I had the idea that this livery was employed by stock based in Leipzig but when i tried to find evidence for this theory I came up with nothing. I have a comprehensive library of Deutsche Reichsbahn books and all the resources of the internet but try as I might I cannot find any photo or reference to a train with this livery. The other area where blue was adopted as a livery was around Rostock ........... on Dosto S/Bahn stock. Is it possible that the Rostock based Type Y coach sets were also given this livery?


Rostock Dostos drafted into the Berlin area in 1990 to assist with the resumption of services following the tearing down of the wall. The rake is here seen entering Hennigsdorf. (copyright as stated on the photo).

Any help in tracing the history of this livery would be helpful.

Best regards ..... Greyvoices (alias a bloke now entering his 8th decade ........ yes I'm 70 today).


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Greyvoices
post 7 Feb 2020, 09:56
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There is no fool like an old fool.

The very attractive DR Type Y coach which was the subject of my last post on this thread caused quite a bit of head scratching. Why did I never encountered this livery in the 1:1 scale? Why is nothing written about them either in books, magazines or online? To the rescue came Simon Boulton who tracked down an explanation in the 2004 Sachsenmodelle catalogue. These were coaches hired by DB to provide extra capacity in the interregnum years following the collapse of the wall; prior to merger of DB and DR which is why they still retained DR ownership and decals. The confusing element had been the description time period as Epoch IV which for some ends in 1990 but in the relationship between DB & DR it seems that Epoch V did not start until full railway integration was achieved in 1993/4. Mystery solved. These coaches therefore ran between west and east services ......... supportive to the Interregio network.

I new that in 2008 I had bought the two coach set in this livery from Modellbahn Turberg in Berlin so with the purchase of the single coach I now had three of them. Not yet enough for a convincing rake so I searched online for any others for sale. Result = 0.
So, I resigned myself for a long wait but then, yesterday as I flolloped at home, my first day back from what had been an arduous 8 day trip to Germany & Belgium, I stood looking up at a very high shelf in my railway room and noticed a Sachsenmodelle double box peeking out. After deft use of a broom handle (too lazy to get out the steps) I had in my hands a second set of two coaches in the blue and ivory livery ........... so now I have 5 .............. 2 x half brakes, 2 x 1st/2nd composites plus 1 x full second class. I will pose this 5 rake on the layout for a photograph so that you can see the effect. Now 5 coaches is nigh on a model railway rake but I have to admit that another full second class would add an extra level of believability so if anyone knows of the location of Sachsenmodelle item number 74622 then please let me know.

Just when and where I bought that second double coach set I have no idea. If this is an example of what happens to a chap with a failing memory then I hope that the deterioration stops at about this level. Any further loss of marbles and I run the risk of forgetting where the railway room is located.

Best regards .................. Greyvoices (alias John)


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Allegheny1600
post 16 Mar 2020, 14:48
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Hello John,
After a long absence, I have managed to log in again!
It's good to see that you are keeping going with this layout and I'm pleased that you have some new storage for non-railway items, that should help enormously. I know that I hate it when my working areas get cluttered up but - who is it that does the cluttering? Me, sadly!! I never learn.
All the best,
John E.


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My layout: Leberecht

Read This: Is this fair?
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Norman Byrne
post 8 Apr 2020, 20:48
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Hello John (Stranger);
So good to still find you here, and along with the more pertinent posts, being and doing a Top Job, will hopefully catch up further, shortly, but very impressed so far.
Thanks, Cheers Norm

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Greyvoices
post 8 Apr 2020, 21:05
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Goodness me .......... you are still alive Norm.

Has the virus driven you back into your loft? Norm's Loft Layout

Best regards ............. Greyvoices (alias John)


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Greyvoices
post 19 Apr 2020, 09:44
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Yesterday was damp and misty so not ideal for working outside ......... except for a bit of spraying the last of the plattenbau cradle kits that I have assembled:


Now I have a typical short rake of wagons loaded with plattenbau panels.

I felt that I was only getting the hang of making these kits after I had completed the last one but I think that will be enough. For some inexplicable reason I built the first three cradles with the panel retaining mechanism the wrong way up so this had to be corrected. It was not easy to prise apart a card kit but eventually I managed it without too much destruction. I managed to get a variation in colour using a variety of tree spray cans but the weathering still has a long way to go. I think that I should throw in the towel and admit that I have to purchase an airbrush and compressor. That class 120 is in sore need of a bit of "verwitterung." (I like to add the odd german word in the hope that I will be corrected).

I think that part of the problem in construction was that I never saw any of these cradles in use and photographic evidence is hard to find though there are a few sources showing the more substantial cradle design in use. I am thinking about scratch building one of these.


Though I did find this here: https://www.bauwelt.de/themen/Von-der-Stein...en-2093278.html

Overall, I am pleased with these WBS 70 Laserfirstcut cradle kits.

Best regards ................ Greyvoices (alias John)


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Norman Byrne
post 19 Apr 2020, 13:37
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Hello John,
Looks and sounds like you have been busy on the precast concrete panels and cradles front, that rake of wagons in the photo really do look the part; makes for quite a distinctive model and also talking point. You have obviously made a lot of good progress on the overall model too.
The photo / link of the “larger” cradles / pre - cast units, during use on the pictured buildings construction is quite some photo too - the tracked crane being used for the panel erection, looks like some “beast”, particularly given the wide centre to centre dimension of the two sets of running track, no doubt in part due to the cradle and precast panels combined weights, and then the cantilever jib length of the crane to position the units on the buildings superstructure. Used a couple of tracked tower cranes on a few projects in the past, but they just ran on a single pair of rails - nothing like the scale of that monster ! Are you planning to include an in progress building site in your model, using the cradles / panels and wagon loads you now have ? That crane would make some eye catching feature - looks a bit like one of those from the giant open cast mines you occasionally see on old documentaries / photos - think model space might be an issue lol !
Great to see your progress, Thanks, Cheers Norm
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Greyvoices
post 25 Apr 2020, 12:54
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Interesting post Norm. I suspect that you may be as obsessive as me ............. you're a railway modeller so you must be.

You touch on the heart of the matter, where am I going with all this?

I wanted something typically East German that cemented the layout in place and time. The Berlin Re-visted layout was originally set in the mid 1990's, 5 or 6 years after the wall came down. It is "firmly based" on a fictional location on the Kremmener Bahn which linked Kremmen to the Berlin terminus - Stettiner Bahnhof. The history of this route is quite complex but today forms the northern section of S-Bahn route S25. I will write about this in a later post as it gets a bit involved.

To backdate the layout to Epoch III and IV is not just a matter of changing rail and road stock but also involves looking at the commercial and social activities existing in East Berlin in the post war years after the wall was erected. Moving the layout location from the fictional Tegerlee See to Hennigsdorf Nord allows me to adopt some of the characteristics of the line during the DDR years. The transport of plattenbau panels is a typical activity that was common during the post-war construction phase. The types of cradle used, the wagons employed and the road vehicles linking railheads to worksites gives me the opportunity to research and then model this fascinating activity.

You see ........ perfect obsessive behavior for an old codger like me.

I do not at this stage intend to represent a plattenbau building site as I want to concentrate on the dockside area for transfer between rail and road. The existing dockside crane is for a grab loading scrap into canal barges and would not be man enough for the job:



So I have ordered this which I will adapt for its plattenbau transfer role:


Faller F131368

I did a lot of thinking about the weight of the concrete panels and used a somewhat rough and ready method of calculation because I could find no source of accurate data. I started with the knowledge that the Samms wagon with 6 axles was the preferred vehicle for the transportation of 2 cradles, each loaded with 6 panels. Given that the maximum permitted axle loading is 22.5 tonnes and on secondary routes 20 tonnes and factoring in the unladen weight of 29.3 tonnes plus the maximum permitted laden weight of 90.5 tonnes we can assume that the load cannot exceed 61.2 tonnes. Therefore each laden cradle could weigh up to 30.6 tonne.We can go further if we refer to the following:


Image scanned from "Modellbahn Ladeguter 2" by Horst Meier - published by Miba. The distinctive railing on the brake platform would indicate that this is a Kbs stake wagon.

This image shows 8 panels loaded onto 2 makeshift cradles which themselves are loaded onto a 2 axle Kbs wagon which in turn is loaded onto a 4 axle Culemeyer transporter for the final leg of the journey to site. The maximum weight that can be transported on a Kbs wagon is 27 tonne evenly distributed over the axles (as we see here) so 4 panels on what is evidently a makeshift cradle can weigh no more than 13.5 tonne (less the cradle).

So, putting all of the above into the computer between the ears, liberal lubrication of synapses with alcohol and we can extrapolate that a cradle loaded with 6 panels could weigh in the region of ............... oh my brain hurts. Factoring in the capability of a 4 axle Res wagon helps as the load capacity varies between 39 and 55 tonne depending on load type and position on the wagon. The distance between bogies would make a Res wagon less than ideal for the conveyance of these cradles so the allowable weight would be restricted to the lower end, say 39 tonnes which I suspect would be at the very maximum for two loaded cradles. I lean on my railway experience here and I would be uncomfortable using a Res wagon for this traffic.

There is of course this avenue of investigation: The weight of concrete is approximately 150 pounds per cubic foot, or 4,050 pounds per cubic yard. The formula for calculating the weight of concrete is: Length (in feet) x Width (in feet) x Thickness (in inches) /12 x 150 = weight (in pounds). I've not gone down that rabbit hole yet but give me time .............. and then there is the metric conversion .................

So what's the upshot of all this? Well I've proved that I'm utterly bonkers ............. that i still don't know what a loaded cradle weighs .......... that i know what is the maximum that it could weigh ............... that I need to get a life. I decided long ago not to discuss such things with my wife ............. can you imagine the atmosphere chez Greyvoices Towers if I did!!!!

Best regards .............. Greyvoices (alias John)



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Norman Byrne
post 28 Apr 2020, 19:36
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Hello John,
What now can possibly be said, after such a detailed and considered reply, with photo back up as well; is wonder if that concrete weight / quantity, allowed for windows openings and of course rebar lol - just kidding of course (* please don€™t check !).

Seriously though, can only take my hat off at your depth of information - Truely Wonderful; Do keep it going.

Whilst not having any applicable era pics for the layout, will find some which might be interesting on the pre - cast front; including its lifting / handling inc Glyndeborne and Covent Garden - but meanwhile, will continue to re - read your post / can€™t promise to fill in many ...... gaps lol !

Thanks again, Cheers Norm
Ps. Deffo not a Chez Greyvoices or N€™sLoft after dinner chat item ........ last supper !
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Greyvoices
post 6 Jun 2020, 16:31
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Thank you for your comments Norm. It must seem churlish of me to have not replied sooner but as I have commented elsewhere I was afflicted like so many MRF users by the Ivp6 intolerance. Hopefully you have not taken as long as I did in sorting out my own solution and regain access.

I have not done any more work on the plattenbau theme but plans for the layout are being influenced by plattenbau traffic being carried through the route and to the dockside railhead. More on that as it developes.

I have taken advantage of a major part of my life being denied me - PUBS - and the fact that being at home all the time saves me loads of money. We pensioners are very lucky to have a steady income when many in our society are struggling so it is almost a duty to spend money that has been diverted from the consumption of alcohol. Somehow drinking at home is just not the same. So how best to do my bit for society? After a conscience saving donation to the local foodbank what better way than to support my local model railway dealer. Below are just a couple of my recent purchases:


Roco model of 50 0018-7. An oil burner complete with oil tender. I didn't have a Class 50.0 (ex 50.50) so now I have one. 50 0018 was allocated to Wittenberge for years so, being to the Northwest of Berlin was a locomotive that was most probably seen in Hennigsdorf. I even saw it myself running tender first through a level crossing. I sat in a vehicle waiting at the crossing and remember scribbling down the number. At least i think that was the loco because I cannot at this moment lay my hands on the relevant notebook. Should I trust my memory?


This is the Piko sound equipped model of the Class 107. DR purchased 20 of these Czechoslovakian build locomotives and based all of them in Leipzig at both of the Hbf depots. 107 009-3 was hardly likely to be seen at Hennigsdorf but in my world 009 was sent to the LEW works for some attention and whilst in the area was trialed on plattenbau traffic transfers. Well that's my reasoning and I am the fat controller. I already have a PMT analogue model of the 107 but I have been putting off hot wiring a chip into it as there is not much room under the hood. How on earth do N gauge modellers manage. H0 is bad enough.

Once again I have to apologise for the quality of my photos but I just cannot find the battery charger for my digital camera therefore have been using my phone. Cleaning the phone lens might help. There are more alcohol denial enabled purchases and I will share those with you in a following post and for your sake I hope that I find the camera battery charger soon.

Keep safe ............... Greyvoices (alias John)


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