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> gradient/incline descending
craw
post 16 Dec 2013, 20:33
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Hi all
I have been given the whole spare room now and have dismantled layout
was thinking of moving to N gauge but have decided to stay 00.
Now to main reason for post have looked through search and most topics on gradient
give the ratio and the best minimum of about 1:50 what I was wondering does this
have to be used for descending or could it be reduced to say 1:30.
John
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TonyDaly
post 16 Dec 2013, 21:26
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Hi John.

I in 50 is usually the min & even then you may have trouble with some locos & length of train.
I suppose you could have whatever you wanted going down but it may not look right

What length is your layout & how long do you think your gradient will be ?
Do you have a plan in mind or a drawing ?


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craw
post 16 Dec 2013, 22:43
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Hi Tony


Hoping to have a continuous loop going round board twice a sort of funny shaped 8.
Baseboard is 4mx3m what I was thinking was gradient going up on one 4m side then
crossing over lower track on 3m side then going down the other 4m side so that loco would continue
round loop until reaching gradient again.
The area in middle would be my working area(also for bed) and where line is at right is lift out section
to allow access to middle.
I have the idea in my head just trying to transfer it to paper.
John
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TonyDaly
post 17 Dec 2013, 00:41
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Hi John.
If you start the gradient at the Green mark going in the direction of the green marks by the time you reach the crossover point Blue you would have I think about
1 in 75. This would give you a clearance of about 3" at the crossover point.
Then from the highest point at Blue go down to Red would give you again about 1 in 75.
I'm not sure if my calculations are dead accurate by they're there or there about. Don't forget to take into account where the entrance door is in the room.



It might also be better having the crossover point in the middle of a straight. You could make a feature of the crossover point with a girder bridge or something similar. I have included an early & later photo of a crossing point showing you what I mean.
Try & make the radius at the corners as generous as you can as they look very tight on your plan.











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Richard Johnson
post 17 Dec 2013, 03:03
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***John, if you use Power Base under the gradients and for a few metres at the top of each, I can guarantee that 1 in 30 will be OK... I'd still target the ida of keeping as gentle as possible from a cosmetic viewpoint though. A quick search for PowerBase will find you lots of video showing it in action.

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Richard


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Long funnel ...
post 17 Dec 2013, 08:58
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QUOTE (craw @ 16 Dec 2013, 20:33) *
have looked through search and most topics on gradient
The recent thread started by Tholt-y-Will also had some useful info by Chinahand about installing transition gradients.

LF&T
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Robert Stokes
post 17 Dec 2013, 10:15
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With that size of room you can make the gradients quite gentle. Have the bottom track at the crossover position as the lowest point on the whole layout. Let the tracks both sides of this rise very slowly and you will get 3" at the highest point easily. You might be able to use gradients of 1 in 100 doing this or no more than 1 in 50 even if you allow a level section for a station or other feature.

By the way, you would make the thing look more realistic by having larger radius curves at the corners and use transition curves going in and coming out of each corner. Also, that little notch on the lower left of the diagram doesn't seem to have much purpose (although you may have a special reason for it) - I think a baseboard the same width all across the left side but maybe slightly narrower would be better and certainly easier to make.

Good luck with the project. I think that you are probably right to stay with 00, the room is certainly large enough for it. Every time I see an N-gauge layout at an exhibition I think that is just too small for me.

Robert


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kristopher1805
post 17 Dec 2013, 14:55
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John, I use 1 in 33 and it works Ok, you do not need Powerbase or any other device but it will help if you do, I do not use such devices if you use decent locos the problems are when you come down with the horrid small tension locks I prefer to use DMU couplings and newer stock and the wrenn wagons have the metal large loop couplings which are good if the height is set correctly.

Old Towcaster is here and it looks as if my high level at 132mm is higher than your climb as this will help you.

One of my 2 gradients is here;
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kristopher1805
post 17 Dec 2013, 14:56
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Photo is here;

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Robert Stokes
post 17 Dec 2013, 14:56
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One more thing I forgot to mention first time. You have little corners sticking out on the right-hand side as well. Are these for any special reason? Have you considered curved corners to the baseboard edge? These don't have to be built into the framing. They can just be a curved top and then hardboard, which will easily bend to quite a small radius, used to finish off. These two pictures show the sort of thing I mean.





Robert


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kristopher1805
post 17 Dec 2013, 16:36
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Like that Robert, am thinking of doing a bit the same so thanks for the photos.

Kris
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craw
post 17 Dec 2013, 21:13
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Hi all
Thanks for your replies much appreciated as always.
Tony thanks for the added bit to my sketch and the photos they are really useful.
I will maybe try 4th and 3rd or be really brave and go flexi.
I was hoping to have station on the side where the red mark is and that is why I
wondered about making decline less to allow more space.
The layout drawing was done on scram and easier for myself to draw corners
As you mention Robert curves would be more appropriate and definitely give it a better
finish the small piece you mentioned on left is to allow me into window for cleaning them.
The other piece was going to be a lift out to allow access but may consider making it bigger
but in a previous layout had a crawl under and was alright but one can stiffen up with age
Once again thanks once I start to add the other track areas will move to my layout section.
John
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Robert Stokes
post 17 Dec 2013, 22:08
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You might consider a lifting flap instead of a lift-out section. I've got one and think it's very convenient.

Robert



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craw
post 18 Dec 2013, 14:28
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I had thought of hinged piece but with the higher level being here wasn't sure if it would work.
I could see if have elevation on the other side but I have to step on to window sill for cleaning.
John
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TonyDaly
post 18 Dec 2013, 16:06
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QUOTE (craw @ 18 Dec 2013, 14:28) *
I had thought of hinged piece but with the higher level being here wasn't sure if it would work.
I could see if have elevation on the other side but I have to step on to window sill for cleaning.
John


Hi John.

It will work.
The hinges must be level with the highest track.
I know from experience that a photo is better than words so here are a few photos to show you what I mean.









This is what the area looks like now but its not yet finished.






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Tony.
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