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> Is 3D printing the way to go??
Mike Buckner
post 8 Nov 2012, 06:35
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QUOTE (Phil P @ 7 Nov 2012, 17:14) *
I wasn't happy with the surface in 7mm. The roughness was lumpier than the rivets!



Maybe something can be done but a filler-primer is going to remove a lot of the panel lines and rivets or at least cover them up.

Other materials do seem to be a lot better in this respect and there is an element of getting what you pay for. I've seen examples of work produced on top spec machines that is amazing, although still not as good as a quality scratchbuild or RTR model. Trouble is this IS expensive.

As I said in the article, I think this is the future, or at least part of it, just not yet for everything. Mind you, technology does move on and in a few years time, who knows?



This granularity of the surface and of curves is the problem with the technology at the current state of development. Suitable now for modelling surfaces which are themselves rough, such as pebble-dash walls, asphalt roads or rough concrete.
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James Skelton
post 8 Nov 2012, 07:47
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QUOTE
Can someone out there point me to the best freebie CAD program please?

I've used 'ProgeCAD Smart' for 2D drawing. It has some limitations if you are used to AutoCAD, but does the job for me. I'm not sure it has 3D capability (i've never tried), so may be of little use in the context of this thread. If anyone else has experience of other freeware CAD software, especially 3D, I too would be interested in hearing.


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Long funnel ...
post 8 Nov 2012, 08:27
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QUOTE (James Skelton @ 8 Nov 2012, 08:47) *
I've used 'ProgeCAD Smart' for 2D drawing. It has some limitations if you are used to AutoCAD, but does the job for me. I'm not sure it has 3D capability (i've never tried), so may be of little use in the context of this thread. If anyone else has experience of other freeware CAD software, especially 3D, I too would be interested in hearing.

Thanks for that suggestion James, I shall investigate whether it has 3D modelling capabilities.

QUOTE (jukebox @ 8 Nov 2012, 04:57) *
Like this one? wink.gif

That is an excellent link Jukebox, many thanks. Putzi says

QUOTE
using Sketch Up I made a 3D design and had a prototype printed. There's still plenty of detail needed though; sand dispensers, the "roof garden", pantograph mountings, light guides and glazing, an alternative snowplough with slot for couplings etc. That should take some time!

he printed out that 3D Sketchup model in N gauge. From what I can see those front end curves look brilliant at N gauge scale.

I've used Sketchup for some simple architectural stuff, but after having got used to Autocad, I find it difficult to adapt to its different protocols and commands.
So I 'm wondering whether the quote from dwb's post here offers something similar to my Autocad skills
QUOTE (dwb @ 7 Nov 2012, 21:20) *
I'm trying out Autodesk 123D Beta 9 at the moment to see what's possible. This particular (free) piece of software has a steep learning curve but I think I'm getting somewhere.

It is a fascinating topic...full of (eastern?) promise
"We live in interesting times"
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LF&T
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scarborough rob
post 8 Nov 2012, 08:48
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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 8 Nov 2012, 06:01) *
*** Like anything. I have seen lots of 3d printed things including railway related - an entire article by a modeller is a different thing.... As is a completed model using the parts compared to a RTR unit.

Until its seen by all at the end stage as a useful comparison, most will not be able to see its real potential and understand possible "pitfalls and added effort"

Richard

yes

One of my first pitfalls was to try and make everything too scale size and accurate, I did a model of HSFV1 for example and the suspension I designed for it was too weak to survive the printing process and fell apart in the printer, never mind not being stong enough to run on a track!


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scarborough rob
post 8 Nov 2012, 08:51
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if you are still linked to education, student, teacher, etc (or say volunteering to help teach at a local school) you can download and use Autodesk 123D Beta, or if you want to just give it a try use tinkercad at www.tinkercad.com


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The king called all of his wise men to consult with him
He asked them for something that would
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the wise men went away and discussed the requirements
then they came back and handed the king a ring
on the ring was engraved the legend
"This too shall pass"
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kiwionrails
post 8 Nov 2012, 15:37
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QUOTE (scarborough rob @ 8 Nov 2012, 09:51) *
if you are still linked to education, student, teacher, etc (or say volunteering to help teach at a local school) you can download and use Autodesk 123D Beta, or if you want to just give it a try use tinkercad at www.tinkercad.com

As a student i can download the full versions of the AutoCAD Suite, the only difference being that it has "AutoDesk Educational Product"(or something similar) printed around the outside. For that all you need is some sort of academic email address, eg: .ac , .sch etc smile.gif
I'd def agree about AutoCAD V Sketchup, and personally i prefer AutoCAD's UI, although as for you that is probably just because i'm used to it wink.gif tongue.gif

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scarborough rob
post 8 Nov 2012, 15:54
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QUOTE (Mike Buckner @ 8 Nov 2012, 06:35) *
This granularity of the surface and of curves is the problem with the technology at the current state of development. Suitable now for modelling surfaces which are themselves rough, such as pebble-dash walls, asphalt roads or rough concrete.


I think it can be used for the basic structure of something as well, especially if you are using one of the smooth detail materials, for example on of the projects I am currently researching is the 290 ton boiler wagon, large heavy duty girder construction, get the basic structure printed and add details like tiedown points and rivets using thin brass sheet or more likely the Archers 3D transfers, the way I was going to make this before finding 3D printing was to carve a basic structure out of wax, use this wax master to make a mould using RTV silicone and then used the mould to cast the chassis out of resin, then go through the same steps as above, CAD then print is SO MUCH EASIER, and like I said before once you have the CAD done if the printing technology goes through a large improvement you can get it reprinted, rather than having to go through the blank/mould/cast route again.

I know I suggested this just on the basis of - "Hey why don't one of the reporters write something about this?"

But I am getting of the opinion that I would like to contribute to or even write an article, but don't know if Hornby mag would be interested?


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The king called all of his wise men to consult with him
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then they came back and handed the king a ring
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"This too shall pass"
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dwb
post 9 Nov 2012, 23:04
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I discovered today that Autodesk 123D Beta has gone into legacy mode and been replaced by Autodesk 123D Design. I've downloaded this to discover that it has a lot less to it than 123D Beta and features I was making use of, have disappeared. The interface I was becoming familiar with in 123D Beta bears a much closer resemblance to Autodesk Fusion Inventor 2013 Preview which is available as a free download with an expiry date set for April next year. Someone has already asked in the forum what the commercial plans are - ie how much once it's expired and had a deafening silence as a response.

So what to do? I want to make scale models which means being able to enter accurate dimensions and then join it up accurately. A quick overview of entry level 3D applications is that they are about joining together basic shapes in an "approximate" fashion without too much regard for accuracy.

More research and thinking is required ...

David


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Long funnel ...
post 9 Nov 2012, 23:29
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QUOTE (dwb @ 10 Nov 2012, 00:04) *
I want to make scale models which means being able to enter accurate dimensions and then join it up accurately. A quick overview of entry level 3D applications is that they are about joining together basic shapes in an "approximate" fashion without too much regard for accuracy.

That is just the conclusion I have come about the software available to me to since retirement - it is very frustrating to be no longer able to access the sophisticated model building software available to institutions, though still wanting to continue applying the expertise I acquired during 20 plus years of CAD usage since the late 1980s.

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Richard Johnson
post 10 Nov 2012, 02:48
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*** Hello Solidworks, bye bye lots of money for the full version, and no "generally available" free trials as its a very serious bit of software....

They do have a reasonably priced student edition though.

Richard


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scarborough rob
post 10 Nov 2012, 11:39
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QUOTE (Long funnel & tiresome @ 9 Nov 2012, 23:29) *
That is just the conclusion I have come about the software available to me to since retirement - it is very frustrating to be no longer able to access the sophisticated model building software available to institutions, though still wanting to continue applying the expertise I acquired during 20 plus years of CAD usage since the late 1980s.

LF&T



QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 10 Nov 2012, 02:48) *
*** Hello Solidworks, bye bye lots of money for the full version, and no "generally available" free trials as its a very serious bit of software....

They do have a reasonably priced student edition though.

Richard

both of these could of course be addressed by the article. There are of course other alternatives to paying massive amounts for an application, but most of them are illegal! innocent.gif Has anyone looked to see if there are any open-source CAD programs, on either windows or linux (android - linux with the bugs taken out)?

has anyone tried Ashampoo 3D CAD Professional 3? $299, probably about 500 after being translated into real money




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The king called all of his wise men to consult with him
He asked them for something that would
make him happy when he was sad and sad when he was happy
the wise men went away and discussed the requirements
then they came back and handed the king a ring
on the ring was engraved the legend
"This too shall pass"
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dwb
post 10 Nov 2012, 11:56
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QUOTE
Has anyone looked to see if there are any open-source CAD programs, on either windows or linux (android - linux with the bugs taken out)?


All I've read so far is second hand. The impression I have is that few of the open source / freeware programs have the dimensioning that I'm looking for. I also want to be able to copy, paste and then combine so that I can build large structures from small components. It may be that I'm going about this in the wrong way but in my modelling (real not virtual) to date, I've found I get the most convincing models by replicating the construction of the "real thing".

David


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scarborough rob
post 10 Nov 2012, 12:51
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QUOTE (dwb @ 10 Nov 2012, 11:56) *
All I've read so far is second hand. The impression I have is that few of the open source / freeware programs have the dimensioning that I'm looking for. I also want to be able to copy, paste and then combine so that I can build large structures from small components. It may be that I'm going about this in the wrong way but in my modelling (real not virtual) to date, I've found I get the most convincing models by replicating the construction of the "real thing".

David


Thats how I do it myself, then if you get more, or different, information on your prototype you can move the parts around to correct it, rather than having to go back to the start, also 99.99999% of rolling stock, etc is symetrical, so all you have to do for example is design one suspension component and then copy and paste


--------------------
The king called all of his wise men to consult with him
He asked them for something that would
make him happy when he was sad and sad when he was happy
the wise men went away and discussed the requirements
then they came back and handed the king a ring
on the ring was engraved the legend
"This too shall pass"
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dwb
post 10 Nov 2012, 14:40
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QUOTE
Thats how I do it myself,


I'm not the only one so wink.gif

I've found a way of working with 123D Design which allows me to set dimensions and copy / paste so I'm off to find the next road block.

David


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Hornsby Hornby
post 11 Nov 2012, 10:56
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Hornby, Bachmann etc should look at programs that will print their locos at a cost. The price can include a chassis and detailing kit. Why fight technology when you can make money off it.
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