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alanoes
QUOTE (Babz @ 6 Jul 2020, 11:16) *
Good Afternoon Alan You really have a very large on your hands i admire you. I have found a lot of German companies do not make the effort to translate to English Uhlenbrock which is the system of DCC i use were forced too by British Agents so they could sell more , but they are lazy IMHO. Babs



Hi Babs,
I said I like a challenge biggrin.gif
I've quite enjoyed doing it to be honest. It has meant that I have actually read the manual thoroughly, whereas I normally just flip through instruction manuals and then do my own thing, then only go back to them when something doesn't work correctly rolleyes.gif

Regards
Alan
alanoes
Hi All,

I've made a tentative start and put together my first catenary mast



Its a wheel tensioning mast (4164) to which I have added the transformer set (4105). I've added a bit of weathering and rust stains.



This will be located at the start , or end, depending on your viewpoint, as its a shuttle route, up on the top level, at the end (or start biggrin.gif ) of the line.



I have only placed it roughly in position, as I can't work properly up in that area without the aid of the "Topside Crawler" (see earlier in this thread), which I will have to dig out and assemble.
Once it is fixed firmly in place, I will work away from it, installing catenary and masts as I go. This will be a good place to start, as its probably the hardest section. Not only for access, but once I'm past the station, I have a bridge and tunnel to deal with.

Regards
Alan


Babz
HI Alan That looks Fantastic great project. Are you going to do the whole layout or just certain Sections.
Babs
alanoes
Hi, Babs,
No, just the shuttle line up to the little station at the top of the layout. Its a fair bit to do, as it comes down over 3 levels.
On the plus side, there are no visible points to deal with, but I have to span a bridge, go through 4 tunnels and deal with the final gradient that is visible on the lower level before terminating at the main station in a similar way to the top station where I'm starting. Should be fun biggrin.gif
Regards
Alan
Babz
Wow that is a big job in itself. Thank youfor keeping us informed.Babs
alanoes
Houston, .. we have a problem !

When I initially purchased the bulk of my catenary masts, I chose the Reichsbahn masts, as I liked their more "old fashioned" look.
After a bit of research, I realized that I would need some "special" masts, such as the wheel tensioners, bridge masts etc, to get a more prototypical look.
None of these "special" masts come with the Reichsbahn style boom, first problem. Once I had translated some of the Viessmann book, I noticed that you could buy replacement booms of the standard line mast type (Re 75). Great, and they came in different lengths as an added bonus thumbsup.gif Problem solved,
I will buy some replacement booms and fit them in place of the Reichsbahn booms. Which I did.
WRONG!!!!
On fitting the first mast away from the wheel tensioner/transformer mast, I noticed the catenary wire rose up, oops Get the loco up there and see what's happening



As I feared, the catenary was too high for the pantograph!
On closer inspection of the masts, and booms, the design of the Reischbahn boom makes it about 7 to 8 mm lower than the standard boom, so I assume the the standard mast is shorter or has its boom cut outs lower down.
So I re-fitted the Reischbahn boom and that brought the catenary level down, so I tried the loco again.



The catenary wire looks more level now and the pantograph rides on it, but only just, the catenary wire pushes the pantograph down by no more than about 3mm.
My question, before I go any further. Is it normal/prototypical for the pantograph to extend that far up in normal running ? Personally, I would like to see it running about mid extension.
I have had a look at the bridge mast (4129) as I have some of those, they are shorter, and if I fit a Rieschbahn boom on them (I have spares, as I got some middle masts that I won't be using). That would bring the catenary down another 7 to 8 mm which is where I'd like to see it.
I have to reduce the catenary height to go through the tunnels anyway, and I have already reduced the height of a couple of masts (that wasn't the easiest of jobs) to get a decline in the catenary as it approaches the tunnel.
Perhaps the bridge masts are a better option ?
Any comments or advise appreciated
Regards
Alan
alanoes
Well, I'm up and running
I know I haven't given anyone much time to reply to my previous post, but I'm an impatient bugger, and decided to press on with my own ideas rolleyes.gif Right or wrong, I think the pantograph looks better running more compressed.
I have used the couple of masts that I previously shortened to get me started and bring the catenary height down a bit.



I have had to deal with a small curve at the end of the line where the track follows the contours of the platform and once past the station at the other end, I have had to switch the mast to the opposite side of the track for lack of a level surface on the near side.



This is the last mast before I get to the bridge span. I have offered up the brackets supplied with the bridge masts, and they do not seem to fit well to my viaduct bridge. It says in the instructions that it will fit with any Marklin or similar bridge.
Its a long time since it was installed but I would imagine its a Faller kit, so I have ordered some kibri 39754 console bridge supports, as recommended in the Viessmann manual, as they seem to be more universal in the way they fit.
I have also ordered some more Viessmann 4129 bridge masts. While I'm waiting for those bits to arrive, I will apply a bit of weathering to the fitted masts and have a go at shortening a few more Rieschbahn masts.
Regards
Alan


Greyvoices
That looks really good Alan.

Best regards ............ Greyvoices (alias John)
dwb
My only thought on the height of the catenary wire is clearance at level crossings for high side vehicles.

Your installation looks good.

David
alanoes
Thanks for the positive comments guys, John, from someone who has installed Viessmann catenary, that means a lot.
David, thanks also, I won't be having to deal with any level crossings as I'm just doing the shuttle line.
TBH, I was looking at a training video this afternoon for Indian electrified railways, just to see how the catenary is fed from the mast transformer, and I must admit, the pantographs did look like they were extended quite high.
But on a funnier note, they were going on about the importance of safety with the electrical apparatus, but every train shown in the video had open or no doors at all, speeding along the track with passengers literally hanging out of them biggrin.gif
As I said in the earlier post, I need to reduce the catenary height to get through the tunnel portals. This afternoon I opened up the tunnel catenary set (Viessmann 4195) for a bit of forward planning and when I put together a mast, the underside of the brass tape is practically the same as my catenary height, so that makes me feel better about what I'm doing.



Regards
Alan
alanoes
Hi All,
One last thing before I call it a night, your thought's on this,



This is by no means the finished product, I've just got it hanging there temporarily and if I keep it, I will tidy it up a bit, although from photos I've seen, these cables are far from tidy.
In my opinion, the cable is a bit oversize, but that can be sorted, this is just a "Is the idea good or not" question.
Regards
Alan
dwb
I agree that it looks oversize but I am not familiar with how that type of catenary was wired so I can't say it's wrong. A photographic reference is your best bet.

David
alanoes
Hi David,

I have looked through literally hundreds of images trying to find something, and this is the only one I can find that depicts the type of transformer arrangement that I have.



You can see that the wiring is coming from the top connection, then to a joint box and then on to ? . The mast in the picture has a boom on it and you cant see the contact wire, but I'm assuming that's where the wire goes to question.gif
My situation doesn't have a boom so I'm just making this up as I go
I have sourced some smaller gauge wire and had another go, which looks a lot better but still not sure I'm happy with it.



From the normal viewpoint at the front of the layout, its hardly visible,



but if I keep this one, I'm going to have to do the others, and they will be closer to the naked eye and open to more scrutiny so maybe I'll just forget the idea.
Regards
Alan

dwb
I'd say you've got a pretty good match in that photo thumbsup.gif

Our local line was electrified recently and whilst the masts etc are very different, the wiring connections look very similar and I don't think they bother with insulation on the connection wires. It looks like they just bend it to ensure the necessary air gap separation to avoid flash over and leave it at that.

In your situation I think I would add the feed wire for the transformer posts because they have that very obvious pair of insulators at the top - power arrives but where does it go? My guess is that the wire attaches to the top of catenary a few feet from the support boom. Other feed points are less obvious so few will miss them if they aren't there.

David
alanoes
Hi David,
Thanks for the positive feedback.

"In your situation I think I would add the feed wire for the transformer posts because they have that very obvious pair of insulators at the top - power arrives but where does it go?"

Not sure what you mean. ?
There is a supply coming from the transformer, up through the fuse on the side of the mast and then up to one side of what is called the "mast switch" in the Viessmann instructions, at the top of the mast. I have then taken my wire from the other side of the mast switch to feed the catenary contact wire.
The only difference I can see between the photo and my mast, is that mine doesn't have that extra insulated post on the top of the mast and the feed from the fuse goes direct to the mast switch.
Regards
Alan
dwb
Sorry. I didn't express myself very well.

What I meant was, it's easy to see that the output from the transformer goes to the top of the post, so anyone seeing that would expect it to go somewhere and not just stop, so adding a wire from there to the catenary wire is necessary to complete the scene.

David
alanoes
Hi all,

I am still waiting for the bridge consoles / supports so turned my attention to the tunnel entrance.
I have created some brackets by modifying some "hanging yokes with outrigger" item 4186



I use 2 of these for each bracket, although I only use the plastic part from one of them.
Firstly, I cut the plastic hanging parts from the end of the yokes and shorten one yoke to suite.



The two plastic parts are filed flat at the back, and one is shortened.



These are then glued to the back of the yoke to form brackets / spacers to clear the protruding brick line alone the top of the tunnel portal.



A couple of fixing holes are drilled through the yoke, and the finished unit is glued and screwed to the tunnel portal, using 14mm long track screws.




This gives me a boom on the tunnel face to terminate the external catenary, and to attach a short length of catenary wire that will to go into the tunnel and attach to the tunnel catenary set brass strap.



This is probably completely non prototypical, so it can join the long list biggrin.gif
I have made four of these, (one for each tunnel portal) Two left hand and two right hand.

Regards
Alan



alanoes
Hi all,
Hope you are well.
Not much happening at the moment due to work and temperatures in the loft over the last few days
But here is the tunnel portal bracket and last bridge mast connected together. I have the catenary extending into the tunnel, but have yet to fix/secure it. Access is very tight on the other side as it is close up to the joists making it difficult to get hands in
and see what you are doing at the same time. I'm sure I will get there in the end, and the lower level tunnels will be easier to work on.
Regards
Alan




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