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Full Version: Dapol GWR 43xx Mogul 2-6-0 Derailment issue
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billybidley
I've just purchased the Dapol GWR Mogul and it runs fine on my layout on all 3 radius curves, however, when it is pulling a load, the rear driving axle derails on curves no matter the radius. Has anyone experienced this problem before? Or does anyone have any ideas on how to resolve it?
34C
QUOTE (billybidley @ 17 Jun 2020, 10:58) *
I've just purchased the Dapol GWR Mogul ...

You are the first to have one then! Checked two of the retailers I make most use of and both are awaiting stock.

Two key things to check:
Is the pony truck free to swing, and if so are the wheels fouling on the loco when the truck swings?
Is the rear of the loco contacting any part of the tender front when on curves?

Either of these are likely to cause a derailment, and it is often the rear coupled wheelset that hops off the rails when this happens.


butler-henderson
No doubt its a Mainline 43xx repackaged by Dapol as their own back in the 1980s.
butler-henderson
5322 I presume, made 1981-1982 as Mainline 37090 the unsold stock of which was sold by Dapol as their D48 from 1985
34C
QUOTE (butler-henderson @ 17 Jun 2020, 18:31) *
No doubt its a Mainline 43xx repackaged by Dapol as their own back in the 1980s.

Ah, so that's the explanation. Not the new model that's expected soon.

Many more possibilities for malfunction with these old models. Loose driving wheels, the plastic wheelface detail inserts bowing
outwards, split chassis assembly loose or out of alignment so the driving wheel axle centres aren't all in the same plane, off centre
drag from a very crude loco to tender coupling, cracked gear so the loco starts 'kicking' as the load it has to move increases.


Julian2011
QUOTE (butler-henderson @ 17 Jun 2020, 17:31) *
No doubt its a Mainline 43xx repackaged by Dapol as their own back in the 1980s.


I get the idea and the possibility, but is there any evidence that this might be fact?

Regards

julian
34C
It's definitely fact that Dapol acquired the remnants of Mainline's product, (and the tools for the Airfix GMR product that had been
bought by Mainline some years previously) when their parent company abandoned toy production. Whether this includes this
model, I don't know, but the owner clearly believes he has an ex-Mainline item sold by Dapol. (For completeness, the tools for the
Mainline originated models were the property of Kader, which they used later in the launch of Bachmann Branchline.)
Anthony Richards
I wouldn't be too hasty in assuming that this is warmed-over Mainline stock. Dapol have been designing a completely new Mogul since 2018 I think. I didn't know that it had been released yet, but then I haven't looked.

Tony
butler-henderson
The new Dapol model is completely missing from their pre-order and shop parts of their web site along with the Prairie but you can pre-order the Manor that they announced earlier this year. Interesting to read that they "...are now producing highly specified steam and diesel locomotives in 1;76 scale"-, the implication of which is what went before was somewhat less specified. They did post an update re the Prairie in March https://www.dapol.co.uk/OO-Gauge-Prairie-Update which presumably shares a lot of common parts implying the first shots (presumably pre-production) were due end of the second quarter of the year. Quite how the pony truck clears the cylinders is questionable without some very strange action.
butler-henderson
It is in the on-line updatable catalogue which has had some recent changes so the new model would appear to be still at decoration sample evaluation - that page has not been altered since Nov 2019

http://www.dapol.co.uk/Catalogue/82/index.html
billybidley
Sorry for the confusion,

It is almost definitely the older Mainline model re-packaged by Dapol. I bought it off eBay for £30.

Thank you for the comments and I will have a go at everyone's suggestions and report back.

Cheers
34C
Gently does it with these old Mainline products, could be knocking forty years old in parts manufacture terms. The driven
wheelsets are relatively weak, the spigots on the axle halves push fit in a round hole in the insulating axle muff: so they will go out
of quarter very readily as the plastic tends to crack slightly over the years.
butler-henderson
If it needs replacement axles they are available from Peters Spares.
34C
QUOTE (butler-henderson @ 19 Jun 2020, 21:42) *
If it needs replacement axles they are available from Peters Spares.

I thought it was just the Bachmann split chassis axle muffs, have they expanded to cover the Mainline
design?

I knows a man with a Mainline Jubilee, now having worn out two Bachmann replacement mechanisms. But he still has the original
Mainline mechanism, and all that's wrong with it in his opinion is that the plastic axle components crumbled to dust while it was
stored for about ten years, so the wheels just fell off when he next ran it. There's a bet running on this: if he can get these parts,
I am on a pint of beer if something else fails and stops it running within a six month... Which it will, 'flakiness' being the part of the
mechanism specification they left off their advertising.

In all earnest 'bb', Mainline models looked well, but the mechanism construction is not as robust as it might be, for anyone that
wants to operate models regularly. Regular breakages and quite rapid wear out are the norm on the larger models. Small and light
models do best: I have a J72 from 1976 which still runs, it's partner bought at the same time had mazac rot in the wheelsets and
has supplied the spares to keep it going: on its last legs now as the plating is worn off the tyres and chassis recesses, so pick up is
very poor, but the young man who has it on his layout really likes it!
butler-henderson
QUOTE (34C @ 20 Jun 2020, 08:40) *
I thought it was just the Bachmann split chassis axle muffs, have they expanded to cover the Mainline
design?

I knows a man with a Mainline Jubilee, now having worn out two Bachmann replacement mechanisms. But he still has the original
Mainline mechanism, and all that's wrong with it in his opinion is that the plastic axle components crumbled to dust while it was
stored for about ten years, so the wheels just fell off when he next ran it. There's a bet running on this: if he can get these parts,
I am on a pint of beer if something else fails and stops it running within a six month... Which it will, 'flakiness' being the part of the
mechanism specification they left off their advertising.

In all earnest 'bb', Mainline models looked well, but the mechanism construction is not as robust as it might be, for anyone that
wants to operate models regularly. Regular breakages and quite rapid wear out are the norm on the larger models. Small and light
models do best: I have a J72 from 1976 which still runs, it's partner bought at the same time had mazac rot in the wheelsets and
has supplied the spares to keep it going: on its last legs now as the plating is worn off the tyres and chassis recesses, so pick up is
very poor, but the young man who has it on his layout really likes it!


https://www.petersspares.com/spares-peters-spares.irc

PS27 - Axle set for Mainline J72
PS28 - Axle set for Mainline 03 / Pannier / 56xx
PS29 - Axle set for Mainline Manor / 43xx and Replica B1
PS39 - Axle set for Mainline 4MT and LMS 4-6-0s

I understand Bachmann can provide replacement axles for their split chassis models and probably somewhat cheaper.
billybidley
I have just got around to inspecting the loco again and it turns out the rear axle is cracked and on playing about with it I've broken it more. I shall purchase new ones from Peters Spares. Should the wheels be push-fit into the new axle or should super glue also be applied?
34C
Push fit, you have to set quartering accurately or it will run like a 3 legged dog, so best to leave scope for small adjustments.
Graham Plowman
QUOTE (billybidley @ 29 Jun 2020, 20:27) *
I have just got around to inspecting the loco again and it turns out the rear axle is cracked and on playing about with it I've broken it more. I shall purchase new ones from Peters Spares. Should the wheels be push-fit into the new axle or should super glue also be applied?


IIRC the original Mainline version of this model had round ends on the plastic axle stubbs which meant that the wheels could rotate on the axles, affecting the quartering.

The Bachmann versions had splines and I think the later ones even had square ends like Romford axles so that quartering was guaranteed - ie push-fit with no glue required.
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