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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
This is my first Slater's kit but I have built a number of others including in the main Parkside Dundas kits.
The instructions appear clear enough and as usual a good read through is esential before attempting anything.
Keen on building a tank wagon, my first, I decided to ignore the start instructions and began with the barrel. A little contradiction but having read through I could see no problem in producing this first. I have included pictures of the parts on sprue and the barrel before finishing.

The Barrel went together without too much trouble although it needed some material removing from one edge as the diameter exceeded the end cap by approx 1mm. This I did by sanding the underside joint and repeatedly testing the fit until this matched the end caps.

This is the finished Barrel before any attention to the joints. I am not too sure about using filler / finishing putty (car maintenance hat on
) on the seems but I'll see what it looks like after a little sanding only. Perhaps someone can advise
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
QUOTE (0-6-0ST @ 5 Oct 2008, 14:27) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi,
This is my first Slater's kit but I have built a number of others including in the main Parkside Dundas kits.
The instructions appear clear enough and as usual a good read through is esential before attempting anything.
Keen on building a tank wagon, my first, I decided to ignore the start instructions and began with the barrel. A little contradiction but having read through I could see no problem in producing this first. I have included pictures of the parts on sprue and the barrel before finishing.

The Barrel went together without too much trouble although it needed some material removing from one edge as the diameter exceeded the end cap by approx 1mm. This I did by sanding the underside joint and repeatedly testing the fit until this matched the end caps.

This is the finished Barrel before any attention to the joints. I am not too sure about using filler / finishing putty (car maintenance hat on
) on the seems but I'll see what it looks like after a little sanding only. Perhaps someone can advise
Hi,
The next stage in building this 14T tank wagon was back on track with the instructions.
First stage in the assembly of Slater's 7056 Tank wagon. The instructions warn because of the fragility of these parts great care is needed and to use a sharp craft knife to clean off any ejectors pips & flash. If you check the picture of this sprue you will see there are approx 50+ connections just to the frame, some marked by a white line.

Using a sharp craft knife I found put too much pressure on the parts and when breaking one joint I decided to investigate an alternative. I ground a jnr. hacksaw blade partly to a narrow strip and then reduced it's thickness significantly. This still required a great deal of care & support close to each point being sawn. The main reason for this is that the mould connections are substantial compared to the frame parts. The most difficult was around the brake spring, top centre of picture, which I found almost impossible to separate. Under the area circled is one half of the leaf spring buckle this is 9 mm long x 1.5mm wide x 0.5mm thick, one end is buried within this group of mould injection

This is the frame partly completed with the draw bar fitted at one end only.

I just checked the Parkside wagons I still have and all I believe are sold with the frame as a separate part, perhaps they recognise to retain scale detail this part is too fragile to be hand cut from the plastic injection sprue.
 

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QUOTE (0-6-0ST @ 5 Oct 2008, 23:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi,
The next stage in building this 14T tank wagon was back on track with the instructions.
First stage in the assembly of Slater's 7056 Tank wagon. The instructions warn because of the fragility of these parts great care is needed and to use a sharp craft knife to clean off any ejectors pips & flash. If you check the picture of this sprue you will see there are approx 50+ connections just to the frame, some marked by a white line.

Using a sharp craft knife I found put too much pressure on the parts and when breaking one joint I decided to investigate an alternative. I ground a jnr. hacksaw blade partly to a narrow strip and then reduced it's thickness significantly. This still required a great deal of care & support close to each point being sawn. The main reason for this is that the mould connections are substantial compared to the frame parts. The most difficult was around the brake spring, top centre of picture, which I found almost impossible to separate. Under the area circled is one half of the leaf spring buckle this is 9 mm long x 1.5mm wide x 0.5mm thick, one end is buried within this group of mould injection

This is the frame partly completed with the draw bar fitted at one end only.

I just checked the Parkside wagons I still have and all I believe are sold with the frame as a separate part, perhaps they recognise to retain scale detail this part is too fragile to be hand cut from the plastic injection sprue.

***You need a pair of fine sprue cutters - John at Bromsgove models has them in stock.

They have very sharp jaws and are flat at the back so cut cleanly when the flat is to the part to be kept...

Also, with fragile parts, first cut the heavy sprue in a couple of places, that way, its not adding pressure or acting like a spring on all the delicate parts when you try to cut them from the sprue feeds.

another tip. if the parts are very delicate make sure the sprue isn't too cold when you cut it - if you give it a bath in warm-ish (not too hot for comfortable fingers) water for a few minutes first, the parts will tend to be less brittle for a wee while until they cool.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 5 Oct 2008, 16:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***You need a pair of fine sprue cutters - John at Bromsgove models has them in stock.

They have very sharp jaws and are flat at the back so cut cleanly when the flat is to the part to be kept...

Also, with fragile parts, first cut the heavy sprue in a couple of places, that way, its not adding pressure or acting like a spring on all the delicate parts when you try to cut them from the sprue feeds.

another tip. if the parts are very delicate make sure the sprue isn't too cold when you cut it - if you give it a bath in warm-ish (not too hot for comfortable fingers) water for a few minutes first, the parts will tend to be less brittle for a wee while until they cool.

Richard
Hi Richard,
Thanks for that. I may have to look at perhaps longer jawed cutters but even with the tools I have it would still be very difficult especially the area I indicated, top centre of the sprue. I think this is a bad moulding design as I can not see how to cut this out at all. I eneded up almost remodeling these pieces.
 

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Thats a good Tip Richard about using warm water to heat the plastic up,

Not something I had ever thought about.

I always use shape cutter to cut parts from the sprue,

Cheers

John
 

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QUOTE (0-6-0ST @ 6 Oct 2008, 20:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Richard,
Thanks for that. I may have to look at perhaps longer jawed cutters but even with the tools I have it would still be very difficult especially the area I indicated, top centre of the sprue. I think this is a bad moulding design as I can not see how to cut this out at all. I eneded up almost remodeling these pieces.

*** Its not necessarily bad moulding design - to get perfect plastic flow to fine or detailed small parts throughout the sprue the main feed sprue and part have to be pretty close, and if the part is delicate it does make it hard to both get perfect results and keep things easy for the modeller...

I understand perfectly which parts you are referring to - thats exactly why as I advised, you need to cut the heavy part of the sprue in a couple of places, otherwise all of the springy and bending forces that go into the cut are transferred to the weakest point which as always with this sort of kit, happens to be the part you want to keep. Do tat and it WILL make it wasier - and a proper sprue cutting plier WILL be the tool to use.

Also... If you prefer a knife, if you cut the heavy "feed sprue" either side of those parts, then you can position the part you want to keep onto the edge of a cutting mat where it will be properly supported as you cut - then a super sharp scalpel blade or chisel type x-acto type blade will cut it away much more safely & with relative ease even if there is no real room.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (0-6-0ST @ 6 Oct 2008, 13:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Richard,
Thanks for that. I may have to look at perhaps longer jawed cutters but even with the tools I have it would still be very difficult especially the area I indicated, top centre of the sprue. I think this is a bad moulding design as I can not see how to cut this out at all. I eneded up almost remodeling these pieces.
The next stage involves removing the brass parts from the fret. These are 4 x corners & 2 x buffer spring protection plates. They all needed rivets tapping out. I don't have much experience but I use a modified pin punch and tap them out on a plate of aluminium. I find this has just the right amount of resistance to produce a small rounded rivet. These were all then glued in place on the plastic frame.
Next the 4 x 'W' irons & 4 pairs of cast brass brackets. The quality of the lost wax castings is excellent. The instructions recommend soldering the brackets to the irons whilst still on the fret which I did and then dressed nibs and any signs of excess solder as they were removed.
I tried the horn blocks in place and they needed no attention but I found the bearings too tight to risk pushing into the blocks. I know I should use broaches to ream out fine fit parts but if at all possible I use a fine square file. The square removes material evenly from the hole and unlike round files they do not bind having contact only at the four corners, the bearings fitted neatly. Now to assemble Axle boxes and blocks c/w bearings to the 'W' irons, this I found most difficult avoiding glue on moving surfaces but eventually success.
I thought I would try various methods to remove the Axle boxes from the spru.

I used my Dremel'ish with a rotary saw blade and cut up the main ribs into many smaller parts. I believe this material is harder than the frame plastic perhaps ABS or something, so heating in a water dish didn't appear to help as a lot of pressure was needed with the craft knife. I have not yet seen a sprue cutter that I like so I returned to my home made razor saw, for now but a sprue cutter is a must for the future.
I would appreciate advice on which is the correct shape for the top of the Axle boxes. The red Oval in my picture indicates my 1st. thought and the red spot position my 2nd. this 2nd. point allows the spring in the Axle box to be seen
but may not be right.
Fitting the 4 x 'W' iron c/w Axle boxes etc was a little awkward but all went together quite well.

One good lesson I must remember for the future is to check that the locating pips on the plastic parts fit into their respective holes in the brass parts. This would be easy before assembly and both are free. Having discovered a large difference late on I had to open the holes in the brass carefully and tried the brass part frequently, as these pips & holes are to ensure accuracy in assembly it is easier to ream out the brass holes to fit the pips rather than the other way round and loose positioning. This was pretty tricky to do when fitting the irons to the already assembled frame

I marked the picture to show the locating Pips * and you can see it was a pain to do this for the 'W' irons with the assembled frame, I must do better.


I may modify this tank wagon to a slightly different design which I know is not strictly correct but I will give it a try.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
QUOTE (0-6-0ST @ 9 Oct 2008, 00:10) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The next stage involves removing the brass parts from the fret. These are 4 x corners & 2 x buffer spring protection plates. They all needed rivets tapping out. I don't have much experience but I use a modified pin punch and tap them out on a plate of aluminium. I find this has just the right amount of resistance to produce a small rounded rivet. These were all then glued in place on the plastic frame.
Next the 4 x 'W' irons & 4 pairs of cast brass brackets. The quality of the lost wax castings is excellent. The instructions recommend soldering the brackets to the irons whilst still on the fret which I did and then dressed nibs and any signs of excess solder as they were removed.
I tried the horn blocks in place and they needed no attention but I found the bearings too tight to risk pushing into the blocks. I know I should use broaches to ream out fine fit parts but if at all possible I use a fine square file. The square removes material evenly from the hole and unlike round files they do not bind having contact only at the four corners, the bearings fitted neatly. Now to assemble Axle boxes and blocks c/w bearings to the 'W' irons, this I found most difficult avoiding glue on moving surfaces but eventually success.
I thought I would try various methods to remove the Axle boxes from the spru.

I used my Dremel'ish with a rotary saw blade and cut up the main ribs into many smaller parts. I believe this material is harder than the frame plastic perhaps ABS or something, so heating in a water dish didn't appear to help as a lot of pressure was needed with the craft knife. I have not yet seen a sprue cutter that I like so I returned to my home made razor saw, for now but a sprue cutter is a must for the future.
I would appreciate advice on which is the correct shape for the top of the Axle boxes. The red Oval in my picture indicates my 1st. thought and the red spot position my 2nd. this 2nd. point allows the spring in the Axle box to be seen
but may not be right.
Fitting the 4 x 'W' iron c/w Axle boxes etc was a little awkward but all went together quite well.

One good lesson I must remember for the future is to check that the locating pips on the plastic parts fit into their respective holes in the brass parts. This would be easy before assembly and both are free. Having discovered a large difference late on I had to open the holes in the brass carefully and tried the brass part frequently, as these pips & holes are to ensure accuracy in assembly it is easier to ream out the brass holes to fit the pips rather than the other way round and loose positioning. This was pretty tricky to do when fitting the irons to the already assembled frame

I marked the picture to show the locating Pips * and you can see it was a pain to do this for the 'W' irons with the assembled frame, I must do better.


I may modify this tank wagon to a slightly different design which I know is not strictly correct but I will give it a try.
3rd stage The mechanical braking system. Trying to identify the parts e.g.. safety hangers, upper hanger bracket etc. my knowledge here was sadly lacking. I found a visit to Paul Bartlett's web site 'BR wagon photographs' of great assistance. Wagons pictured from a number of angles helped me to figure out how the equipment operated and was mounted on the frame.
The upper hangers c/w brake blocks cleaned up. Then the safety hangers removed from the brass fret and folded up into a 'U' The instruction says these should be located in a slot in the upper hanger, I must admit I had difficulty in positioning these as the slot is only a very faint couple of marks and getting the angle right was not easy. Next this small assembly is fitted to the under frame ribs with the blocks aligned with the wheels. This in fact is key to the whole arrangement and shows how the rest of the system fits together. The 4 'V' hangers removed from the fret and the outside pair are folded to allow them to fix into the outside face of the solebar. A piece of plastic rod is provided to enable the accurate alignment of the brake assembly. I substituted this for a piece of brass wire which gave more ridged control across the wagon. I passed this wire through the outside 'V' hanger, the inside hanger, the brake gear then across the frame through the other side components before then gluing all four 'V' hangers to the solebars. The brass wire is cut leaving 4mm of excess wire protruding passed the outside 'V' hangers. I also threaded a small piece of wire sleeve onto the brass wire between the inner and outer 'V' hanger to act as a spacer as on the prototype wagons.
Next the brake lever racks were removed from the fret , bent and glued to packing blocks on the solebar. I left one or two small components of at this point to move onto the truss rod. After removing the rods from the fret you need to form 4 rivets on each, this rod is 1.4mm wide and I did not make a good job of these.
Another lesson, I must practice with a variety of suitable "punches" for placing rivets in narrow strip.
The instructions also request the rods are soldered to the base of the 'W' irons. I am not sure this would be a good idea at this stage in the assembly. The plastic axle boxes are approx 1.5 - 2.0 mm above this point and there would be no way of shielding them from the heat so I glued these in place. Once these are fixed the small strap from the base of the lever racks is bent to contact the truss rod and glued. The brake lever is placed just to check positioning.
I think a book on how prototype vehicles actually go to gether, braking, wheels suspension / compensation etc. might be a good idea perhaps on PO trafic, if some one can recomend a suitable book this may be a good Christmas gift

 

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Removal of any plastic parts is done cleanly with a 'RAZOR SAW'

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trk..._nkw=razor+saw+

in various grades of blade some as many teeth as 40 per inch giving a nice fine cut ready for cleaning up minimally with a scalpel .... i've used this method for years without broken/distorted parts, another item worth considering if they are still available are the two saw sets from Airwaves for finer work used with a scapel handle or on their own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
QUOTE (upnick @ 17 Oct 2008, 01:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Removal of any plastic parts is done cleanly with a 'RAZOR SAW'

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trk..._nkw=razor+saw+

in various grades of blade some as many teeth as 40 per inch giving a nice fine cut ready for cleaning up minimally with a scalpel .... i've used this method for years without broken/distorted parts, another item worth considering if they are still available are the two saw sets from Airwaves for finer work used with a scapel handle or on their own.
Hi,
Thanks for the info I made a razor saw, (cheap skate) but I like it I may invest in blades for my various handles when I get to a decent tool store. I think with tools you have to handle them, (that's very nearly funny) so when I am looking at clamps, sprue cutters I think a range of blades might be a good idea too.
 

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QUOTE (0-6-0ST @ 18 Oct 2008, 00:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi,
Thanks for the info I made a razor saw, (cheap skate) but I like it I may invest in blades for my various handles when I get to a decent tool store. I think with tools you have to handle them, (that's very nearly funny) so when I am looking at clamps, sprue cutters I think a range of blades might be a good idea too.

*** Shesto do a range of lovely thin etched stainless steel saw blades that fit a scalpel handle - perfect for your need if you prefer a saw

Richard
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 18 Oct 2008, 04:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** Shesto do a range of lovely thin etched stainless steel saw blades that fit a scalpel handle - perfect for your need if you prefer a saw

Richard

Very nice set Richard look very much like the Airwaves ones i have here ......... a must for any toolbox where any delicate but precise cutting is needed.
 
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