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I confess to knowing nothing about ECoS, but do have the Peco Servos, which were said to be generic to Switchpilot. Looking at the information you've got there, you seem to have addresses 1 - not working, 1.2 1.3 1.4 working, 2.1 - not working, 2.2 working. Just a suggestion [which you have probably done already] possibly leave addresses 1 and 2.1 in the ECoS, as is and add 1.5 and 2.3. It might then be possible to programme the Switchpilot to 1.2 - 1.5 and 2.2 to 2.3, leaving the ECoS to think that 1 and 2.1 still exist??

It's certainly very strange behaviour and I wish you the very best of luck.

Julian
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Thanks Julian - again.
I will send a post to ESU and see what they can come up with. I reached an opinion last night after giving some rest to the issue and will attempt to change the address lines of Switch PIlot Servo - shifting them to commencing with a string higher than that of the first two address lines.... "if" the questionable servo's respond to a different address through ECoS - then I would be of the opinion that those which Switch PIlot has assigned are already taken within ECoS. For a system, which is at the top end of price and supposed quality - I was hoping to avoid much of the associated issues with DCC by electing to purchase "like" manufacturer products - which "should" be plug and play - sadly, it would appear... such is not the case.....
Much appreciated,

frats,
Rosco
 

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I have a variety of Switch Pilot servos connected to my ECoS 1. I expect that on the DCC command side, it will be pretty much the same as an ECoS 2, I just have a mono display.
I don't recall having any problems but I hooked them up some years ago.
I have a spreadsheet with the main settings.
I have managed to cut and paste a section.
As I remember it, the key things are:
  • The decoder address (26) assigns 4 accessory addresses - 101 to 104.
  • Each servo has a speed set by a CV
  • End point A is set by a CV
  • End point B is set by a CV

I remember making most of the setting in POM mode so that I got instant feedback about what was happening.

I hope this helps.

Accessory #​
Location. RailCom enabled​
Device​
Address​
CV​
Purpose​
Setting​
Edit #1​
Edit #2​
Edit #3​
Edit #4​
101​
Servo​
26​
37​
Speed​
15​
38​
Position A​
39​
Position B​
102​
Eng Shed Jnc: Point 9​
Servo​
26​
40​
Speed​
15​
41​
Position A​
40​
42​
Position B​
44​
103​
Eng Shed Jnc: Slip 7​
Servo​
26​
43​
Speed​
15​
44​
Position A​
16​
45​
Position B​
9​
104​
Eng Shed Jnc: Slip 6​
Servo​
26​
46​
Speed​
15​
47​
Position A​
14​
48​
Position B​
9​
 

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33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thanks greatly DWB, I pretty much have the same - Switch Pilot Servo, but with 8 servo outputs.
There are two address lines on Switch Pilot - the first from 1 - 4, the second from 5 - 8.
I have managed to get the first four servo's working from ECoS in a double crossover - but sadly, the first servo now does not respond to ECoS.. but does with Switch Pilot Servo buttons - I don't get this bit.
On the second line, I have been able to get a sixth servo working on servo 6 with ECoS - but not the fifth servo from ECoS....
Both these two will work from Switch Pilot.
I am considering a Switch PIlot Servo reset... and delete all settings for switches (points) in ECoS and start again.

I have done all my programming of Switch Pilot Servo from the decoder itself..... and tried to add them to ECoS via the "add" icons - using addresses - 1,1 1,2, 1,3 and 1,4..... 2,1 and 2,2.....
2,1 has not ever responded in ECoS.... 1,1 did for a short time - but now doesn't...

I just don't get it, I'm afraid..... I am yet to add Extension to Switch Pilot Servo, which was purchased to control frog supply power through the double crossover... I dread this now - Switch Pilot Servo to ECoS has been a challenge enough....

Thanks again for you reply - I'm a bit shocked that others have not made comment - surely, there are hundreds of folk out there who have used ECoS to operate Switch Pilot Servo?.... surely, I'm not alone.

frats,
Rosco
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Ok - know a bit more.
I pulled everything.. all leads and supply.
I deleted all files from ECoS and links....... there is a distinct difference between deleting a "file" and a "file with links"... I deleted everything in the Accessories list of addresses.. so, started completely fresh.
I tried to connect ECoS up with Switch Pilot Servo via programming track on ECoS - but it didn't register.
(have read somewhere it needs a 180 ohm resistor to feign a loco)... went no further with that.

I then connected up ECoS to Switch PIlot Servo through Programing on Main - as I had done before - along with "Accessory Decoder".
I did not fit any servo leads into it, only the track/ power plug and turned on ECoS.

I scrolled through the Switch Pilot Servo screen menu and decided to do a "reset".
I then fitted the first servo lead and set end points and speed using the buttons.
Next, I went to ECoS.

Went to the "accessories" menu in ECoS and "added" a new accessory (this is exactly what I had done two days back)... set up the parameters for a left turnout and "unclicked" the tool icon..... success! - I had control of the first set of points on servo pin #1 (which was lost yesterday for no apparent reason).
I then added each remaining servo to the double crossover one at a time - repeating exactly the same method as for servo #1.. and they all worked fine......

I then added the fifth servo and set end points/speed etc.. then went to ECoS.... presto! - I now have #5 working for the first time....
And finally added my sixth servo - and it also worked (again).

There is only one issue - all servos work "reversed" on the ECoS icon.. as in "diverge" is actually "straight".
I'm not game enough to fiddle with any of it for now - it works.... and I am very hesitatnt to change it to show the correct orientation of the points...

My intention, at some time - is to "swap" position A and B on each servo at Switch PIlot Servo.....

So - I don't believe I have a defective ECoS or Switch Pilot Servo.... it is all working - and I have no idea at all as to why it now works when I really haven't changed anything that was done two days back.... smoke and mirrors, this DCC stuff....

I have yet to fit Extension to Switch Pilot Servo and commence to make the double cross-over connections through control of the points......
Logically, it shouldn't take a lot of mapping out - just the "common" frog lead connected to the centre pin of Extension - and a supply lead from the two separate blades...... all my jumpers were soldered to the double crossover prior to laying it down... and the blades/frog were cut and insulated.....
I have run loco's through the double crossover satisfactorily in DCC by temporarily connecting twisted leads..... it did not trip ECoS out - but I did find that it was best to throw all point blades together... that is, all in diverge - or all laying straight....

I know I can use a common address so that all four servos will throw together - by using just one of the four servo addresses for all servo's... but am not game enough to try that yet either...
In this way, all four sets of points should throw at the same time... by pressing any of the four icons on the layout menu.... I had this working a few days back as well.... then it went belly up....... without apparent reason after I attempted to add servo #5.... and lost #1 - the readouts and addresses on ECoS made no sense as to why.... I simply lost control of #1 and #5 would not respond at all from ECoS - even when setting it up. Yet both worked perfectly from Switch Pilot Servo... that bit still confuses me....

frats,
Rosco
 

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Well done!
My intention, at some time - is to "swap" position A and B on each servo at Switch PIlot Servo.....
Pretty sure I had to do that. I would have swapped the servo count settings.

I know I can use a common address so that all four servos will throw together
Have you tried the built in route setting on the ECoS?

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Thanks David,
at this point in time, I'm edgy to "try" anyting - I have it working and really don't want to go back to losing any of it again.... not adventurous, I know - well, not yet..... let's just go with having control of them for now.
I'm new to DCC and ECoS is way beyond my comprehension - more so coming to terms with CV's and how they impact on other CV's.

I'll hook up the final two servo's to this unit and maybe then, will connect Extension and try to set up power control through the Shinohara double crossover frogs.....

Thanks for your support, it is reassuring to have someone on my side of the layout.

frats,
Rosco
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Ok, just some pix to indicate what I'm doing - as mentioned, this is my first HO layout - only a 12' x 15" shelf layout. The central point was always going to be this Shinohara double crossover which I've had for decades and always wanted to use.....
Train Rolling stock Track Railway Electricity


This is the "door" end.... I build the shelf so that the entrance door could be opened, but I had full use of the "long" wall..... ending in a single line which holds two loco's...

As you can see, I have yet to lay track and points for the remainder of the layout - undecided which/what/where the rest of it will be - but, I'm pretty much convinced I'll have a loco servicing pair of spurs at the "window" end.
Between the running lines and the wall will be three marshalling "balloons" with points at both ends.

I'll also have a single line running along the wall for a suburban electric shuttle service. My plan is to have a "faux" platform at each end, with just the edge of the platform coping set away from the wall and some photographs/graphics for the stations..... along with overhead staunchions extending out from the wall etc. etc.... long term project...


Train Building Rolling stock Vehicle Wheel


This is my wiring thus far.... Switch Pilot Servo is just "hanging"... I'll screw it up under the layout after I add the next two servo's... and Extension..... my "bus" runs along the framework against the wall with terminal blocks connecting each section and jumpers connected to those for planned "isolation" ability.....

Electrical wiring Electricity Engineering Electronic device Wire
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Bump - in trouble again, but first and update on that pesky Shinohara double crossover - all now working perfectly, but I would most certainly not do it again...it was troublesome, and for a newbie into DCC and ECoS... one which was fraught with peril....
I have learned a lot on deciphering ESU speak - but most of my success came through perseverance and a lot of failures..
For anyone considering such an inclusion - and only if you Must - Switch Pilot Servo plus Extension solved ECoS issues... eventually. I was able to program Switch Pilot Servo and Extension directly through ECoS.. but many times, it fell over for no apparent reason (to me).
I had more issues with making use of the "other" half of the 8 servo decoder... which shows up in ECoS as a separate unit.... the second four servo outputs come up as 2:1 through 2:4....
My trouble started when I tried to link two sets of opposing points to form a single crossover.... for reasons unknown to me thus far, ECoS tripped every third or fourth time the pair of points were thrown in unison.
I was able to get around this by including a "delay" in the second servo timing.... and it is possible that something was shorting as the two sets of points opposed - or partially opposed... it's all working perfectly now..

Next, I added a second 8 servo decoder for operation of more sets of points - this was a breeze.... simply using insulated track joiners at the separate tracks end of the points and soldering in supply power/signal to ECoS bus worked a treat. Supply to the common track came from the previous track section... this does not seem to cause ECoS any issues... (yet).

But now, I've come up on another issue.... Kaydee #307 uncouplers..... of which I have 5.
These are a "coil" energised uncoupler - and ECoS does not like them....
I added a Switch Pilot 3 decoder... and wired it up following ESU instructions.... using the K83 mode, wiring the common to one side of the coil, and Out A to the other.
I have programmed control in ECoS as an "decoupler track"... with a momentary button/icon on the track diagram for operation....
All is fine when booting up ECoS.. until the uncoupler is pressed - immediate tripping of ECoS.
I firmly believe ECoS does not like the outputs of Switch Pilot decoders to energise such a heavy coil - it has issues with the relatively small coils of Peco point motors (of which I have removed all from my layout, and have installed servo's instead)... even when following Switch Pilot instruction manual and moving the mode to K-83...

I would like to know if anyone has overcome this issue with ECoS/Switch Pilot/Kaydee electric uncouplers?

I know my wiring and decoder are working properly - as I trial fitted an automotive relay.... pressing the "decoupler" icon on my track diagram caused this relay to close...... the control programming and subsequent wiring proves correct... but that coil in the uncoupler is obviously way to serious for the sensitivety of ECoS... or is well beyond the acceptable load for any of the ESU componentryl

My next attempt will be to revert to the original plan of adding these automotive relays to each uncoupler.
Supply to these, and ouput from - will come in the form of a separate power supply to energise the coils...
ECoS/Switch Pilot will only cause the relay to close.... and I will make use of the momentary action which forms control from the track diagram.... for as long as the icon is pressed, the relay will close and energise the uncoupler coil.

Bit of a nuisance having to add an additional power supply.... but, it if keeps ESU happy - so too, will it me...

Hope some of the above helps.... I will keep this thread in contact with my attempts to get these uncouplers operating by ECoS/Switch Pilot...

frats,
Rosco
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
I have a variety of Switch Pilot servos connected to my ECoS 1. I expect that on the DCC command side, it will be pretty much the same as an ECoS 2, I just have a mono display.
I don't recall having any problems but I hooked them up some years ago.
I have a spreadsheet with the main settings.
I have managed to cut and paste a section.
As I remember it, the key things are:
  • The decoder address (26) assigns 4 accessory addresses - 101 to 104.
  • Each servo has a speed set by a CV
  • End point A is set by a CV
  • End point B is set by a CV

I remember making most of the setting in POM mode so that I got instant feedback about what was happening.

I hope this helps.

Accessory #​
Location. RailCom enabled​
Device​
Address​
CV​
Purpose​
Setting​
Edit #1​
Edit #2​
Edit #3​
Edit #4​
101​
Servo​
26​
37​
Speed​
15​
38​
Position A​
39​
Position B​
102​
Eng Shed Jnc: Point 9​
Servo​
26​
40​
Speed​
15​
41​
Position A​
40​
42​
Position B​
44​
103​
Eng Shed Jnc: Slip 7​
Servo​
26​
43​
Speed​
15​
44​
Position A​
16​
45​
Position B​
9​
104​
Eng Shed Jnc: Slip 6​
Servo​
26​
46​
Speed​
15​
47​
Position A​
14​
48​
Position B​
9​
This is exactly what I have now done, David - as my inclusion of more and more servo's to operate all points expands..... if it all falls over and I need to reboot to default - I have the documentation to progressively work through re-programming.... I firmly believe what you have done should be seriously considered by anyone who is taking the servo path for point operation...
frats,
Rosco
 

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Ah the trials and tribulations... it's all a bit too much like work ...
When I researched the Kadee electric uncoupler a long time ago, I noticed that it required a lot of current so I decided to give it its own power supply which would be activated via a heavy duty relay. I think I was planning to use one from a car so that it would be sure to handle the current.

On the double cross over shutdowns, it was either or both
  • Momentary short circuit because the blades did not all change at the same instant.
  • Power overload in the servo driver circuits because too many servos are moving at once.

I think my money would be on the first of those.

To avoid shorts due to unsynchronised point blade switching I feed each point separately from the single entry point, so the blades can never short out either exit route. Easy to do if you build your own double cross over but on the Shinohara?

I am glad that you persevered and solved the problems.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Thanks David,
the Shinohara double crossover wasn't the culprit for shorting - by fitting Extension, I was able to program timing into all four sets changing in sequence, with about 0.75 second between throws....
When I hacked into that crossover, I cut and insulated every set of points at the frogs... it was a bit of a dog's breakfast to run leads from all frogs that would feed the sets of points blades.... but it worked.

The issue I had with shorting, was with a simple set of Peco insulfrog points... two in fact - opposing directions to create a crossover..... and yes, agree - at a critical point in them both switching, there was a momentary confliction... and ECoS sniffed it out....
I altered the timing of those points within the decoder - and all was good...

As for the 307 Kaydee uncouplers - my plan today is to fit automotive relays.. capable of massive current in the model railway world... and supply those from a separate power supply... think it is 17v or so, but I have also purchased a number of voltage regulators... with digital readout..... I can adjust the desired voltage as needed for the 307's.
All Switch Pilot decoder will do, is to close the relay contacts.... a very low amperage draw - the issue should be resolved...... but it is going to add more copper to the underside of the layout....
I believe I add an additional bus along the entire layout.... this will afford tapping into the 17v (or whatever I chose to set the VR at) anywhere in the layout..... never know, these 307's have become very "cheap" since the 309's have been released..... I'm not that put off by the ugly appearance from above.... which, if it gets too much - I can cut and fit sleepers between the uncoupler rails...... "if" I get too annoyed....

Thanks again, David..... we seem to have determined that Switch Pilot cannot supply sufficient current for these units... and ECoS will not accept the resultant current draw it senses as a short or overload...
I won't take the "Peco" point motor path programming... I like ECoS protection just the way it is.....

frats,
Rosco
 
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