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Paul Hamilton aka "Lancashire Fusilier"
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I am not vastly experienced in train spotting but I guess these are Fairburns and that the Thomas faced photo looks more like the first model to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The top one is a 4MT and the bottom is a Fairburn. I have now figured that the real one in the photos is a 4MT but am still wondering how much of a difference there is between the two locos as they look so similar.. It took me ages to spot any difference in them and as I know nothing about tank locos wondered what the difference was.
 

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QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 13 Mar 2007, 07:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It took me ages to spot any difference in them and as I know nothing about tank locos wondered what the difference was.

Where you looking at them with your eyes shut


As has already been pointed out,-the top one is a B.R. Standard 4MT,whilst the bottom one is a Fairburn..
The B.R. design was a development of the earlier Fairburn one for the L.M.S. [which itself was a development of the earlier Stanier 2-6-4T]
Below the running plate they are very similar,but above,there are several obvious major differences which are easy to spot to aid recognition:-

Running plate;

BR; The running plate is continuous from the front buffer beam to the front of the tanks,including the highly distinctive step up below the smokebox with it's large 'near-vertical' area [a common design feature of the BR Standards..]
LMS; The running plate is split into 2 sections,with no 'vertical' section linking them,and the top part is set lower than that on the BR loco..

Boiler;

BR; Clack valves on first ring behind the chimney..
LMS; Top feed just ahead of the dome.

..and last but by no means least....

Tank/cab/bunker;,

BR; Highly distinctive curve from top to bottom that matches the profile of a BR Mk1 coach,bottom of tank has 2 'steps' whilst the top is flat,cab front spectacles are raked back at an angle.
LMS; Flat sides to tanks and bunker,bottom of tank has 1 'step',and top of tank slopes down at the front.

It's just like those 'spot the difference' competitions that you get in magazines from time to time.....
 

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Chief mouser
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I've just noticed that the real one is carrying what appears to be the latest OHL warning flashes, which indicates it's main line certificated (I think)

Regards

John
 

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>which itself was a development of the earlier Stanier 2-6-4T]
which in its turn was a development of the earlier Fowler.

The fact that 4 members of this ancestral line of large tank engines are now (well almost) available in OO led to some disgruntled remarks in discussion of new models for 2007.

David
 

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Another obvious difference and quite visible in the prototype picture is the regulator linkage on the OUTSIDE of the boiler.
A common feature on all BR standard classes.

Regards
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the clarifications. I know it seemed like a dumb question for those who are already familiar with these type of locos but I am not. I have never really looked at tank locos before. I was trying to find a 4MT as I had seen one on a DVD and when looking at that and similar locos found that there were many almost identical ones. I was interested in the differences. I also wanted to clarify if this was the one that I had seen last year at Bo'ness. So thanks again.
 

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The Fairburn Tank has a smaller water capacity of 1,875 gallons, compared to the Standard 4mt capacity of 2,000 gallons. The BR design has smaller cylinders and a higher boiler pressure and a cut down cab. A brief outline can be found here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BR_standard_class_4_tank

This is a set of shots of one the Fairburn tanks at Lakeside, I'm not sure that they have visited any other railways since they were based at the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway.

http://michael527.fotopic.net/c1061701.html

The other link shows one of the BR Tanks at the West Somerset Railway.

http://michael527.fotopic.net/c1032363.html
 

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The OHL warning signs were fitted in late 1950's/early 1960's when using the Staniers on LT&SR lines during the Electrification of the line and just prior to Steam being withdrawn from there in 1962.
 

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Neil, something that covers it even better is the "Book of the BR Standards" and the " Book of the BR Standards 2" both by Richard Derry which are available from Trainworld in Melbourne.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 14 Mar 2007, 13:53) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>That wikipedia item certainly covers it all. Thanks for that!
 

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>which are available from Trainworld in Melbourne.
You're not thinking of getting them thisweekend? There's a circus in town....

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
QUOTE (Ozzie21 @ 17 Mar 2007, 08:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Neil, something that covers it even better is the "Book of the BR Standards" and the " Book of the BR Standards 2" both by Richard Derry which are available from Trainworld in Melbourne.

Ozzie21
I've been meaning to head down there for a while. It's not a bad shop, got a good range. I will go down there in a couple of weeks as I am having a bit of a holiday, we are supposed to be going to the beach in Brighton so I can stop in on the way.
 

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QUOTE (trainman @ 16 Mar 2007, 19:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The OHL warning signs were fitted in late 1950's/early 1960's when using the Staniers on LT&SR lines during the Electrification of the line and just prior to Steam being withdrawn from there in 1962.

I was aware of the reasons for their being fitted, the point I was making was that the ones displayed on the loco in the photo are the latest type which indicates, to me anyway, that this particular loco has current mainline clearance.

Regards

John
 
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