[Jim Flynn]

Asking here, as I haven't joined the Scalefour Society yet, so can't post to it's forum.

Is anyone aware of a good basic steam loco kit, one that perhaps comes with all you need, for a first foray into building one to P4?

I thought I had seen such, while web browsing something else, but for the life of me, I can't find which site I think I saw it on.

Thanks.

Jim F

 

[kiwionrails]

Not sure on their complexity, but I have heard that the High Level Kits (kits) are supposed to be really well thought out.

What sort of prototype do you have in mind?

Regards,

Cameron(Kiwionrails)

 

[Jim Flynn]

Thanks for the link Cameron. My target is to build one or 2 SER or SECR locos, in the future. I'd like to find something that is pre-grouping, or at least looks the part, or that would look right on one of the Light Railways from the SE region.

Jim F

 

[Jim Flynn]

Found the kit I was thinking of, unfortunately, it is O gauge:

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Loco%20Kit%20Pag...ter%20Loco.html

And I was wrong, it doesn't come with all the bits, but they list what all your will need.

Anyone know of similar in OO (well, P4)?

Jim

 

[Nick Holliday]

The main problem is that, with the three (or more) different 4mm standards, it is very difficult for a kit manufacturer to be able to cater for all permutations. I think the kit you are thinking of is the Sentinel from RT Models http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_021.htm The only one who can provide complete(ish) kits of mainline locos is Alan Gibson, as they can supply the wheels and gear boxes (or at least they used to do the package) but even they don't provide the motor. They had a mixed range of etched brass and, I think, some white metal kits, the latter mainly GWR, from the M&L range they purchased. Only a few of them are currently available, so have a look at their site http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/ The next nearest possibility is the DJH range, as they used to provide OO gauge wheels, but again, no motor. Most of the other kit makers leave the choice/supply of wheels, gear box, motor and couplings to the modeller.

 

[Jim Flynn]

Thanks. Nick. The kits I eventually want to do come from SE Finecast, and looking at their website again, they offer wheels in OO and EM, but not P4. I thought they offered all 3.

The more I have read, last night and this AM, the more I am having my doubts about working in P4. There seems to be a lot of issues with building and/or converting locos to P4, and not being in the UK, it's not like I can visit a show and see a vendor to buy some needed bits, or pick up the phone and order, to have them a day or 2 later.

Much as I do dislike the narrow gauge appearance of standard gauge locos on standard track, I think, for time saving and simplicity, that is the way I will go. I will still but a small, simple loco kit, to get back into working on such, but without the hassle of sourcing separate axles, wheels, and related items.

Thank again.

Jim

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Jim,
I like the sound of your Pre-group idea and think it would be a shame for you to abandon all hope of the wider gauges.
How about trying EM instead?
As as occasional P4 modeller, I can fully sympathise! I actually caused some raised eyebrows in my group the other week when I suggested that EM is a more 'sensible' gauge - in that it is easier to get going and to work with.
P4 simply does not tolerate any sloppiness whereas EM does, imho!
When I lived in France for 4 years, the EMGS happily catered for my needs, you just have to be prepared to wait a week or six for things to come in the post.
Hope this helps,
John E.

 

[dwb]

I'm not sure that you will find a complete ready to build kit for P4. Whilst most kits will have frame spacers for P4, the choice of wheels is almost always "free" as these are usually a very personal choice.

If you want to build the whole thing then I would suggest an inside cylinder 0-4-0 as this only has two wheels on which to get the connecting rods correct. I have had problems with my first 00 gauge 0-6-0 but I didn't quite have the full set of tools - like broaches and reamers.

As an alternative, take a look at Brassmasters EasiChas conversion kits for proprietary locos. I believe this simplifies the process somewhat but I have no experience of them at all.

David

 

[Paul Willis]

QUOTE (Jim Flynn @ 24 Apr 2014, 21:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Asking here, as I haven't joined the Scalefour Society yet, so can't post to it's forum.

Just as an FYI, non-members of the Scalefour Society are very welcome to post in the Guest Book on its website:

Link to Scalefour Society Guest Book

There is a spam-catcher type thing on there, but if you're human or something close you should be able to deal with it easily.

HTH
Paul Willis
Scalefour Society Deputy Chairman

 

[rg_michel]

I tussled with this P4 vs RTR OO for a while, and decided in the end to do both. I plan to build a larger layout for all my OO stuff, then a sort of offshoot in P4. Of course, the RTR OO stuff won't run on the P4 section, but I will still have the best of both worlds . From what I understand, the best place to start in P4 is a simple 0-6-0 tank engine such as a jinty, starting with a Bachmann or similar modern loco. There are chassis kits available to do the conversion, and so you can end up with a nice P4 loco without too much agony. I would not start with a kit, as you have to tussle with too many problems at once. You should take baby steps first.

My other advice, is join the Scalefour society. I think this is the single most important thing to do. Their magazine is first rate, and the people are very friendly and helpful. If you look at the following topic URL, once you are a member, :http://scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=2651 You will find some advice that was given to me about working with a jinty.

 

[Richard Johnson]

*** Hello Jim.

If you have not built kits before and want to go closer to scale I'd perhaps look at EM especially if you want full outside valve gear. I have built many locos in OO, HO, EM and P4 - and P4 requires an ability to work to quite close tolerances with very little slack in them for complex linkages.

Its absolutely NOT impossible for a newer builder though, especially with a reasonable tool kit and good basic skills in soldering and hand tools - but I would most certainly look to the P4 society and EM society to find a mentor or two if this is the way you wish to go.

The "Forum PR" for finer standards will often not be all that positive because of the odd tosser that rears his head - BUT - Ignore it - As mentioned earlier these societies are both full of hands-on modellers that you will find both nice to talk to and very positive in offering real help.

----------------------------------

Consider EM and google the term "Easichas". This is a successful and comparatively easy approach to modifying RTR locos for conversion to wider gauges, created by a couple of clever people who want to encourage "closer to scale" modelling. It works a treat.

Brassmasters offer it and have some nice images on their website that explains it pretty well.

If you want full kits designed for EM and P4 that WILL go together well, then Brassmasters, London Road or hi-level kits usually go together very well. The kits are complex BUT the parts fit and there is little "corrective rework" needed if built to instructions. They are pretty well all brass of Nickel silver too, so no overscale and ugly whitemetal to disguise.

--------------------------------

I'd avoid DJH unless you totally replace the chassis - Later kits are OK body and tender wise BUT most of their earlier kits are not actually very good at all, especially those with part #s under kit#70

SE Finecast are redeveloping many kits and the later "re-worked kits" are quite good... but still may NOT be easy to build in the wider gauges.

Think it through and be ambitious - It'd be a shame not to try.

regards

Richard

Kind regards

Richard

 

[Adrian Swain]

Hi folks A bit late to the party but perhaps my comments may be of interest. I prevaricated for years as to whether to go EM or P4. I wanted scale gauge but lacked the enthusiasm for compensated chassis and exceptionally well laid track. I was looking at the usual GWR BLT and of course Ashburton was top of the list. I visited it to assess the potential difficulties even though by then the line was closed and the station a business premises. I also realised the operating potential was pretty minimal and dreamt up ideas of additional sidings without altering the basic design.
.....Result, I did nothing !! Then I found Martin Finney was about to put his Shaftesbury layout in the skip, an almost unthinkable idea knowing how superb everything he tackled was. Even more tempting, it was P4, it was really Ashburton, it had been extended and modified to make operation far more interesting and it was affordable. I was still fearful of P4 wheel standards, compensation and the fact that at that time P4/S4 standards were still advocating rolling stock wheels 2mm thick, vastly overscale when they should only be 1.67mm. This has an adverse impact on the position and appearance of brakegear on rolling stock which has always been a pet hate as I have been a wagon enthusiast for 50 years.
.......The layout has been altered to what my friends call "Bastardized S4" standards or, as I prefer to call it "Improved EM" ( I can't call it EEM as that term was coined by the Manchester group over 50 years ago ) I added the extra O.63mm to the back to back ( 18.83 less 18.2mm gauge ) and use EM wheel standards with the thinnest EM wheels available.
...... I am now a happy bunny !! Well it is Easter !!

 

[Jon Hale]

I know this is coming at it from a different viewpoint, but having built an OO layout to run locos and stock purchased 'off the shelf' I looked at the narrow gauge appearance of the trains I was running, and at the prices I was buying them for. After a few journeys in Central Europe, and seeing the quality and variety of HO model railways, and the correct gauge to scale, I switched to run European HO on my railway. It doesn't answer the question, I know, but that's the conclusion I came to.

 

[Adrian Swain]

Hi Jon That is indeed a solution to the gauge /scale problem but it immediately creates it's own set of inaccuracies. Many HO locos are made rather wider than scale because the wheels are over width and clearances needed to allow use on sharp radius curves mean dimensions such as that over cylinders are rather larger than scale. Some of the older products were quite dramatically over width and not all manufacturers actually used 3.5mm/ft in the first place. Not all is sweetness and light in the HO scale arena !!

 

[Jon Hale]

Thanks Adrian. I know ....