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Just wondering if there are any trains/locomotives available in both OO and HO?

I understand the difference between them and don't really care which one is 'better' as it were. But curious if anyone sells the same model in both? Being UK based and already owning OO models, it is the obvious choice. Although I think the engineer in me does feel a little irked as the mismatch of gauge and scale with OO. But HO seems to be rare here to buy without importing and paying high shipping and fees.

On the flip side of this thought process. Are there any non UK trains easily available in OO? I quite like some of the US classic 4-4-0 Steam locos and some of their modern diesel electrics. But mismatching scales on a layout or even a display grates at me a little.... :D

Thanks.
 

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As far as I know, no one brand sell the same model in OO and HO. However, some HO UK trains can still be found in second hand shops and on Ebay. The Fleischmann Class 42 Warship and Bulleid coaches, and old Lima Class 33 and Mk1 and Mk2 coaches and some wagons (but with rather coarse wheel flanges). Roco made a Dutch version of the Class 08 shunter, and the USA 0-6-0 tank is available in HO and in OO. Brekina have recently releases HO scale Routemasters, and various brands have HO British cars, vans and lorries, even RHD versions. Some brands had, or still have, various continental ferry wagons in HO, and one brand made the Type F Wagon-Lits for the Night Ferry train in HO. For the modern scene, variously liveried Class 66s are avalable in both scales.

Have you seen this website? http://www.british-ho.com/ Very interesting.

As for importing and shipping, I dare to assume that you are in the UK, and you are right. Shipping costs to the the UK have shot up due to Brexit, and of course inport duties and VAT may also be due, again, due to Brexit. I'm not trying to rub it in, but there it is.

The only non-UK OO scale models I can thing of would be Irish models, for example, the recent Accurascale Class A diesel and Mk2a-based coaches have also been announced. Of course, due to Irish broad gauge, they are even more "wrong" than OO is - they should use 20mm gauge track.
 

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As far as I know, no one brand sell the same model in OO and HO. However, some HO UK trains can still be found in second hand shops and on Ebay. The Fleischmann Class 42 Warship and Bulleid coaches, and old Lima Class 33 and Mk1 and Mk2 coaches and some wagons (but with rather coarse wheel flanges). Roco made a Dutch version of the Class 08 shunter, and the USA 0-6-0 tank is available in HO and in OO. Brekina have recently releases HO scale Routemasters, and various brands have HO British cars, vans and lorries, even RHD versions. Some brands had, or still have, various continental ferry wagons in HO, and one brand made the Type F Wagon-Lits for the Night Ferry train in HO. For the modern scene, variously liveried Class 66s are avalable in both scales.

Have you seen this website? http://www.british-ho.com/ Very interesting.

As for importing and shipping, I dare to assume that you are in the UK, and you are right. Shipping costs to the the UK have shot up due to Brexit, and of course inport duties and VAT may also be due, again, due to Brexit. I'm not trying to rub it in, but there it is.

The only non-UK OO scale models I can thing of would be Irish models, for example, the recent Accurascale Class A diesel and Mk2a-based coaches have also been announced. Of course, due to Irish broad gauge, they are even more "wrong" than OO is - they should use 20mm gauge track.
I think you have covered all the ones I immediately thought of: quite a comprehensive answer. 👋

There were a few British Trix/Lilliput items that were an intermediate scale of 3.8mm to 1 foot. That included a Britannia, some BR Mark 1 coaches and Mark 1 Pullmans. By the time they did 'Flying Scotsman' they had shifted to full 4mm scale. There was a commercially available Korean brass 'Flying Scotsman' in HO as well - the brand name was something like Samhongsa, from memory.
 

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variously liveried Class 66s are avalable in both scales.
Having seen some of these on Continental layouts at exhibitions, I was struck at how small they were compared to the other locos running.

David
 

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I forgot: there was also Playcraft (by Jouef), which had BR Mark 1 coaches, some continental wagons masquerading as British, and a class 21 (not a good model at all), among other things.

Remarkably today, I went with a friend to Train World in Melbourne's south eastern suburb of Brighton, and on their back shelf behind the counter, there was an old Triang/Hornby OO Mark 1 with a Lima HO Mark 1 coach together. I took a photo but couldn't do anything about the glue bottle in front. It couldn't have been any more fortuitous for this topic.

 

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... Although I think the engineer in me does feel a little irked as the mismatch of gauge and scale with OO...
You might be even more irked when you perceive the 'variscale' that is the accepted norm for HO steam models.

OO was born out of the necessity to accommodate commercial mechanism parts within the limitations imposed by the UK loading gauge and UK steam locomotive design, most critically the close fitting splashers over driving wheels and the outside cylinders and rods and other components in close proximity to these. The compromise is a constant larger scale, excepting the track gauge.

HO shares the problem of accommodation of the same commercial mechanism parts on steam locos. Even with a larger loading gauge, the larger locos in particular are difficult to produce as working models able to negotiate small radius model railway curves, and the accepted compromise is to move toward 4mm/ft (OO scale) for width around the mechanism. Lima attempted an LMS Crab, and Rivarossi an LMS Royal Scot, and effect is noticeable, as in ugly.

Occasional Japanese and Korean HO brass productions as mentioned above are typically true scale, and the outside cylinder types require scale minimum curve radii, in excess of 1m. Where this all leads if you are sufficiently irked is P4 - true 4mm scale - or P87 - true 3.5mm scale.
 

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TBH if it’s just the gauge/scale that’s an issue for you it would be far easier to stick with re-wheeled OO models and go for EM track, so much easier nowadays and a lot ready to lay if your a member of the EM Society.
 

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All that said there is another difference, much as prices have risen for OO models of late (along with everything else) they are still considerably cheaper than HO Continental models, that said too the track from Peco is cheaper, I did run some Flieschman track (it all mixes in code 100) but it was no better than Peco in my view but comes sitting on it ballasted base, Starting now I would opt for Peco bullhead rail although again it depends upon the desired time of the model, there is not that much in 1950 onwards loco and rolling stock that is not available in OO and the quality has come on in leaps and bounds now and basically that is what I would go for, however when I started to invest in the OO system this option did not exist and having a large number of Wrenn wagons I opted for code 100.

As you now know OO is 1 in 76 but the track should be 18mm and a bit not the HO track that it does use, overall it still looks good and after seeing this all my life it is OK so if code 100 is over sized and the track is too narrow even the more scale accurate options of EM (eighteen millimetre) or P4 (18.83mm) has compromises.

Finally whatever you choose there is a sizeable investment to consider so good luck with that and please ask if unsure, the decisions you make now are critical.

Finally for some ideas buy the Peco catalog and the setrack plans book to get an idea of what you might like, it'll help you understand possibilities even if you want a bespoke railway.
 

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@The Hatt:

There have been a few forays by manufacturers into British HO over the years, most noticeably, Lima in the 1970's (which weren't very good, although I think they did a TGV in OO and HO or was that the Electrostar ?), Rivarossi (LMS Royal Scot ?) and Fleischmann (Warship, Bullied coaches).

Although there is a British HO group today, as a standard, it has never been popular and OO has always 'ruled the roost'.

To be perfectly honest, it isn't worth even considering British HO since British OO is so well supported.

If track gauge is an issue to you, there are the options of EM and P4, both of which you will be up for large scale conversions for, although it is easier with EM. My father built a P4 layout (https://www.mrol.com.au/Pages/Vu/Littlehempston). It was a huge amount of work, even for someone who is a professional permanent way engineer! The problem with P4 right now is that supplies of track parts have basically dried up. P4 Track Company sold out to C&L (IIRC) who seem to be intent on driving the business into the ground. Result is that my father has a layout that he can't complete due to parts supply drying up. Numerous P4 Track Company plastic sleepers are suffering gauge narrowing (plastic is unstable in our Sydney/Brisbane climate) which means that layout has basically failed. It is being dismantled in Feb and replaced with Ashburton - Model Railways On-Line. In my opinion, P4 is a non-starter and is only suitable for ironing-board layouts and nothing more. It isn't sustainable on larger layouts, especially for one-man constructions.

For EM, you basically need to be an EMGS member otherwise you can't get parts. Some may find this acceptable, some may not. EM certainly looks a lot better than OO without the hassle of P4, but I always figured that if you are concerned about accuracy, why stop with a 'halfway' measure (EM) which is still incorrect ? Why not go the whole way to P4 ? A conundrum.

Personally, I'd recommend staying with British OO. I built Ashprington Road - Model Railways On-Line using Peco Code 75 and it has been extremely reliable. Bullhead wasn't available at the time, but I'd consider it today.
Code 100 is a bit 'long in the tooth' for serious modellers, but it is the only standard used in the toy trainset world.

Another option is why bother with 4mm scale at all when we have such superb offerings in the 7mm space these days ?! (See https://www.mrol.com.au/Pages/Vu/0GaugeArticles) In O gauge, you don't need so much stock to make a scene because each vehicle is a scene in its own right.

Finally for some ideas buy the Peco catalog and the setrack plans book to get an idea of what you might like, it'll help you understand possibilities even if you want a bespoke railway.
I would respectfully suggest that if someone is concerned about the discrepancies of OO vs HO and accuracy thereof, that a Peco SetTrack catalogue would be the last thing on their consideration list!
 

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I take it from the original question that your subject knowledge is limited and therefore what you might be more interested in a starter set and to get going rather than jump into the exotic and expensive so I think we now need to hear back from you so we know what you are really looking for
 

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P4 Track Company sold out to C&L
As I remember it, Exactoscale made some kind of co-op deal with C&L but following the change in ownership, rescinded the arrangement and took back control. They did mail order briefly but now the only way to get hold of parts is via the appropriate finescale society as described in this webpage - https://exactoscale.com/track-components/

David
 

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David,

As I remember it, Exactoscale made some kind of co-op deal with C&L but following the change in ownership, rescinded the arrangement and took back control. They did mail order briefly but now the only way to get hold of parts is via the appropriate finescale society as described in this webpage - https://exactoscale.com/track-components/

David
What that link doesn't tell you is that the P4 Track Company/C&L/Exactoscale product range once consisted of a massive range of turnout kits and parts, including crossing, switch blade and other rail parts as well as sleeper bases and plastic chairs.
With the exception of Exactoscale chairs, none of this is available now and when you do order the chairs, they take several months to be delivered.
The result of this is that it isn't currently possible to get the parts necessary to build P4 track, which, in my opinion, makes P4 a dead-end before one can even start.

Graham
 

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It's a shame that it has come to that point. :(.
 

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I believe the intention was to increase the selection of components, but this is all being undertaken by volunteer effort; and I would imagine that the present epidemic has only added to the inevitable obstacles to progress.
 

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I believe the intention was to increase the selection of components, but this is all being undertaken by volunteer effort; and I would imagine that the present epidemic has only added to the inevitable obstacles to progress.
It may well have been the intention to increase the selection of components, but the result has been the exact opposite.
And these problems pre-date COVID by a few years.
 

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However, TTBOMK C&L are still trading and offering P4 track product.

Meanwhile the Exactoscale operation (link post 12 above) offers the somewhat limited range you refer to, as I understand it being run by volunteers? I freely confess to being out of touch since a friend long active in P4 died in 2018.
 
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