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Putting costs aside for a moment - at the end of the day Hornby (or any brand for that matter) could be manufactured to the same standards in the UK & quality if the will is there - in a nutshell it is not, probably from the shop floor upwards & through to the shareholders & back down to the customers.
 

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QUOTE (Doug @ 23 Sep 2007, 19:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would Hornby models evolved to what they are today if production had remained in the UK?

Almost certainly not....I seriously doubt whether the financial position of the company would have allowed them to continue in existence.

QUOTE (Gary @ 23 Sep 2007, 20:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Sanda Kan is the new Binns Road!


It is?

QUOTE (Gary @ 23 Sep 2007, 21:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...the new LMS 10000 Diesel loco receiving wide publicity right now!
And even though this is being produced in Asia even so its price in the UK will be just under £500!
What price the model if it had a "Made in Britain" mark on it?

Probably about the same.

I am not having a go here but loyalty is a personal thing.

Regards
 

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IF British Manufacturers were NOT so intent on producing poor products for High and sometimes extortionate prices, then I, along with many others, could afford to purchase their goods. Sadly, because of the LOW income I get, I can only afford to purchase 'foreign' items and Very Much against my wishes, because I would much rather purchase home produce in ALL aspects.
 

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Well , as part of the target audience...

I've got two Hornby 31s. And they're nice models. I was going to stop at one but an unreapeatable chance to buy one for about £65 arose : my local model shop was closing down, due to the ill health of the proprietor. I've got Bachmann 20s as well. I bought one and then I saw they'd done the loco I was going to renumber it to , and I bought one off my local model shop's stand at a local show - he had some , they were nice and I made an impulse purchase for £45

Would I be doing that at £160? No . I've got an old Airfix 31 in the cupboard , and a 31 body bought off Dapol when they shut down Wrenn production some years ago, and there's an Athearn PA1 chassis spare in the cupboard. I'd be cobbling the bits together to get my 31, rather than buying one.

At that sort of price , it would become - do I really need this model? Unless I really do, I'm not buying. Is there a kit/second hand rebuild option within my skills ? If there is - I'm not buying. BR blue is a livery I can do

If I can't - well then if you want one , you pay the price of what's available. If you can't or you decide its not worth the money - you do without

Others will take a different view - meaning that if British outline models cost £160 a loco and US outline cost £50 , they will feel they cannot afford to model railways they know and will have to model railways they don't. This will be at the margin , but still noticeable. I know the sheer price of Continental models is a deternt to some. Certainly the huge cost of Gauge O is a deterrent to me and many others (There is a market in Britain for locos that cost £495 each . It's called 7mm)

The net result is that the market would shrink substantially. Diseconomies of scale would set in , resulting in a reduction in the range of models available. (If an ordinary loco costs £160, forget factory fitted DCC sound ). With sizeable gaps in what was available opening up , the limited level of commercial support would become another factor making modelling British outline more difficult and driving people away. Some would model other things - more would not enter the hobby at all

Further diseconomies of scale . We know where this road ends - we've only got to look at the 3mm Society or OO9 . TT3 was a commercial gauge once...
 

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As I model British railways (1829-1960 !) I'm stuck with whatever Hornby ,Dapol or Bachmann produce , whether made in U K ,China or Timbucktu, and to a point I'm stuck with their prices too. Would a" made in Britain "logo make any difference to the quality of the item ? I doubt that it would . Bachmann's delivery times would look quite short compared to strike bound British industry. Just look at the British motor industry in the 1970s. I know thats going back a few years but there hasnot been much British made stuff in recent years. I think the prices of todays offerings are too high anyway-high because of extra "quality" ? Detail ? " Quality " that offen falls off before you have a chance to put the item on your track?
My loyalty is in my pocket. I will certainly look at Hornby's new cheap line, if only to modify and detail myself ( adding quality I know will stay put ) and if it does fall off I would know how to repair it. I'd leave the high priced items to the collectors to keep in glass cabinets. Mind you I would pay a couple of quid more to have better packaging instead of the Chinese puzzles that require two pairs of hands to open.

10001
 

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Whether Hornby produce the best models in the world or not is not the question here however it is nice of our continental friends to say that.


It is a question of being prepared to pay the price for models "Made in Britain" and there is a sense that British folk are not if it means the price doubles for a product which can only be differentiated by the fact that is has been manufactured in Britain and not China. Clearly Bachmann sales would rise significantly if Hornby prices doubled as a result of "Made in Britain" manufacturing.

It could well be however that as far as exports go overseas customers would be prepared to pay more if the models were "Made in Britain" as the attitudes outside the UK seem somewhat different.

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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Gary, if Hornby prices doubled because of " Made in UK" labels, to me it would mean that Bachmann gets my money if a similar loco/wagon/coach was about 50% the price of Hornby. Loyalty can only stretch as far as the dollar/pound stretches.
I am not really fussed where things are made - if I have a choice of two locos that I would like costing me $100 from China or only one loco at $100 from the UK, the China made units get my vote especially if they are similar in mechanical, electrical & detail.
 

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Bit of a floored discussion really.

Even those companies that carry out final assembly in Europe will still source the majority of their components in the far east. None of the motors or other bits of electronics will be made here. The metal probably comes from the far east too, and who knows where the plastic granules are made. Print for the boxes and inserts will definitely be sourced in the far east. For the kind of product that we're talking about, the 'made locally' argument is a pretty thin one and boils down to a handful of assembly line workers jobs.

Even Dapol with their 'Made in Wales' aura state in their recent interview in MR that this only relates to final production and involves a limited number of workers.

A 'made in Britain' stamp would encourage me a lot less on these kind of goods than on -say- food, where a local production guarantee means a lot more than a few jobs, but also makes a difference to the sustainability agenda.

Much though we make dislike it, electronic goods and toys will move East for as long as the oil economy shall last... Or until the Chinese workers decide it's their time to have a slice of the cake and wages increase!



Walter
 

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Let us remember that there is a thriving model railway industry in the UK.

Its not just about Hornby and Bachmann. There are probably many more employed in model railway manufacturing in the UK than Hornby ever employed!

If anglophiles want British manufactured product and nothing else then it is available.

We only have to look through the adverts of any magazine and the quality of product offered is absolutely amazing.

As long as we are prepared to pay £250 - £500 we can have virtually anything that Hornby and Bachmann offer made in Britain and with Marklin type build!

Happy modelling
Gary
 

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For me wether the model comes in a red or a blue box is irrelevant it is the quality that matters and if it is a type of wagon or loco that i want although i must confess to having examples of nearly every BR diesel that is available RTR (except rats & Mcrats)

I personally see nothing wrong with paying up to £200 for a model IF it really is as good as it is possible to produce given model limitations however i would balk at the idea of paying £160 for a flawed model just because it was made in britain
 
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