Gary, You said:
<<Really this is a question that only the Hornby cognoscenti can answer.
Had Hornby continued with production in Britain their models may by now have doubled in price to around £160 however they would have had a "Made in Britain" stamp on the bottom and would have used British materials and been assembled by British employees.
Would you have continued to buy Hornby models had this happened? Or would you have switched to buying equivalent Bachmann models retailing at around £80 with the "Made in China" stamp on the bottom? >>
*** First a small correction or two: They may indeed have still been made in UK at double the price but its unlikely either the machinery or materials would be UK sourced... those things too have gone, as made in UK machinery was once exceptional, but was long ago overtaken by lower cost but technically more advanced stuff. I also doubt the employees would truly fit your probably "classic" definition of British....
as to "cogniscenti" - To me, real Hornby for a very long time after they were taken over still had the word Dublo after it, and its only very recently (less than a decade) that "Margate Hornby" have, to me, really earned the right to use the name Hornby - but they have done that now very well and they have at last totally shaken off the shabbyness that was the Triang / Lines Brothers heritage.
Anyway... This is not just a british thing - here in AU most icon brands are also now owned by some anonymous US or asian fund managers, and much of what was good is now made elesewhere - and yes, as a Brit downunder, I'm sad about it from both sides.
However, back to the subject:
As much as it might surprise you to hear, I actually like almost all Hornbys new products very much, I'm delighted they do well as a PLC and have broadened their base. My criticisms all are at their unnecessary failings in regard to quality control specification and project management. I have exactly the same criticism of any brand that fails in that area.
It is NOT because they are Hornby and NOT because the General tooling and design aren't good - In fact they ARE good in most areas that matter to customers at every level, take away predjudice and in fact they are every bit as good as most US stuff, and also several of the EU brands such as Roco for example!
Would I pay lots more for the SAME product made in UK? If there is no comparatively significant advantage accuracy, detail and quality wise, NO.
Would I pay a small premium for nostalgias sake? - possibly... but that could never be the case sadly.
I do think that downplaying quality because of where its made now is wrong for any brand including H ...for a simple example, having had to take the top off many Lilliput loco's recently I can definately say that their more recent chinese tooled / made stuff is far superior to their EU made stuff in both engineering and quality of tooling and detail.
I actually greatly respect the brands such as FL and MK that still make in EU, and mourn every time an "icon" brand is taken over by another offshore Mfr, but that seems the way of the world.... something dictated by national governments and global money, not something we can really do much about.
As a mischievous thought though: Pehaps if Peco moved offshore they might eventually be able to afford new tooling and produce track that was tecnically more competent and looked at least a little bit like that which UK prototypes run on
Richard
PS: Gary, you are definately a crusader - and there's nothing to be ashamed of in that.
But... the problem with crusades is, fighting one-eyed, one tends to harm more of ones own than ones enemies - study the history of crusades of all types, and you'll see thats true. We all need to keep balance in debate, which is why when you claim sainthood for Hornby, pragmatic people point out the truth that they'd otherwise let lie quietly.
PPS: We seldom agree totally, but you do stimulate lively stuff from time to time.