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Just another modeller
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A heads up for HORNBY Adams Radial tank owners

After excellent feedback from a customer, we have checked, and it appears that Hornby have wired this locomotive incorrectly for at least part of the current range.

We are talking specifically about R3333 and R3334, although others MAY be affected.

The problems:

(a) The Right-hand pickup wire from the front bogie is wired to Pin 2 instead of pin 8.

(
The Left-hand pickup wire from the front bogie is wired to Pin 6 instead of Pin 4.

The Result:

On DC, the loco WILL run, but you will have poor pickup quality, so it needs sorting.

On DCC, if you install ANY decoder, it will be destroyed.

There is a carry-over problem too - Of course, as it is a loco problem, the failure will not be warranty as far as the decoder is concerned �" a REAL issue for modellers as Hornby will then be to blame but they will have no real means of replacing your chosen decoder… A problem in general, and a very BIG problem if its an expensive sound decoder!

The Fix:

If you are NOT confident, talk to your retailer about how to proceed. If you are, then read on.


* Remove the socket and turn it upside down

* Trace the wires (not so easy �" it’s a bit of a mess)

* Move the two wires to the correct position.

To help you, here is an image of the socket viewed from the TOP.



Then: (note the correct order)

* Install the new decoder

* Put your DCC controller into “program track” mode

* Place the decoder on the track.

If your “repair” is correct, then you will be able to read and write to the decoder. If its still not good, then it will show an error however, because you are in program track mode you will not damage the decoder!

If you get stuck, please feel free to email us at [email protected] and we will try to help.

Regards, Richard
 

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Its a fault that has existed since they were released, my R3335 had a similar issue - the simple solution is to remove the socket and hard wire a decoder in place; at the same time you can remove the spiders web of wiring that Hornby persist in fitting.
 

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Thank you Richard for bringing it to everyone's attention Richard, hopefully people will see it prior to frying their lovely new decoders!

Its a rather odd combination of pins to get swapped over, as you would think that swapping 1/8 or similar directly opposite pins would be more likely than diagonally opposite!

Regards,

Cameron(Kiwionrails)
 

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Thanks for bringing it to people's attention Richard.

My understanding of the UK law, same in rest of Europe, is that if a customer buys a loco, installs a decoder, and the decoder goes "pop" due to a manufacturing fault (which this clearly is), then the customer has a claim for their losses against their retailer. That claim is for the loco AND the consequential loss of the decoder, even if the decoder was bought elsewhere. The retailer then recovers whatever they can from their business contract with Hornby.
( If a customer has bought the loco with a credit card, and the total bill (loco plus a few other things) on the card was over £100, then the consumer credit act also swings into play, and the customer can claim all their losses from the credit card (even if the sound decoder wasn't on the credit card), and the credit card company will claim their loss from the retailer. It is obvious who will win in a bank-vs-retailer argument. ).

So, a big issue for retailers is to check, or return to Hornby, their stock of the locos mentioned.

- Nigel
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
*** Yes, its not new as an issue but I was really surprised to find at least two R numbers still in volume stock at a major retailer - and even MORE suprised that Hornby has not done / attempted to do the right thing and recall the locos for modification. Something that really is their responsibility. 2 years is an unbelievably long time to "not realise" - and I'd think a leading brand may actually at least try to lead on such things.

I do appreciate the contract sequence in a purchase, and retailers will generally do the right thing, but its still NOT right. The law is written for the general protection of user AND reseller in balance. A "general product failure" like this will persist for a whole beneration of modellers causing havoc along the way as DC locos are handed on the DCC users etc.

In the end everyone BUT Hornby pays the price. The reality is that the user usually blames the decoder not the loco and more often than not two decoders will go to their grave before the issue is identified. (We are still seeing users worrying about failures from the initial Hornby class 50 release <with faulty wiring> perhaps a decade ago!)

Can't help but think that the industry really needs to draw closer together as a group of equals with common purpose and take better care of itself.

Anyway. Heads up to everyone, and for the good of all, please do share this info at your club etc...

Kind regards

Richard
 

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Having read about this problem on the Hornby Forum (it did say copied from another forum), and then finding Richards warning on here, I dug out my Hornby R3333 Adams Radial, removed the body, and after disconnecting the decoder plug, it was fairly obvious I had the wiring problem. I'm pleased to say that after some delicate re-soldering of a couple of wires, and fitting a TCS DP2X-UK decoder, the loco is now running like a sewing machine - as smooth as silk. Many thanks for the initial warning. BB
 

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I think I spoke to soon! On the rolling-road, under DCC power and with body off, it ran beautifully. The slow running was very impressive. I put the body back on, placed it on the track, and it's a nightmare, to say it runs jerkily is an understatement. So body will be off later, and some investigating to do.
 

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I heard of this problem a couple of years ago and contacted Hornby. I returned it to them and they rectiifed the fault and returned it to me in Australia. It tested OK on my rolling road but I have not run it on a layout as I don't have one at the moment.

My recommendation is to contact Hornby and get them to fix the problem. They do know about it.
 

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QUOTE (Bulleidboy100 @ 20 Feb 2019, 22:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think I spoke to soon! On the rolling-road, under DCC power and with body off, it ran beautifully. The slow running was very impressive. I put the body back on, placed it on the track, and it's a nightmare, to say it runs jerkily is an understatement. So body will be off later, and some investigating to do.
One cause of jerky running is the factory fitted interference suppression capacitor interfering with the dcc signal to the decoder; if it still fitted remove it, the decoder acts as an interference suppressor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
*** Yes, of course that is good advice.

QUOTE (Robert Ellis @ 21 Feb 2019, 19:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I heard of this problem a couple of years ago and contacted Hornby. I returned it to them and they rectiifed the fault and returned it to me in Australia. It tested OK on my rolling road but I have not run it on a layout as I don't have one at the moment.

My recommendation is to contact Hornby and get them to fix the problem. They do know about it.

However my question is: Where is Hornbys sense of responsibility?

I do NOT like being negative about them as I think the Hornby brand is important to the hobby and a good approach to corporate responsibility really matters when its a core brand!

If they DO know about it, why have they not issued a recall and remedied all stock before it gets into consumers hands, damaging decoders and causing consequential problems?

Right now very few dealers are aware of it, and those that do have learned the hard way, so there is still faulty stock being sold by major retailers.

Even worse, as major retailers do not hold several years stock, it has clearly been sold to them by Hornby AFTER they already knew they were faulty.

Food for thought? I certainly find it disappointing and suggest that someone in Hornby has simply not been doing their job properly, to the detriment of the brand.

regards, Richard
 

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QUOTE (Bulleidboy100 @ 21 Feb 2019, 17:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There are still a number "brand new" Hornby R3333 Adams Radials available on ebay.
Most of those should be brand new; the sellers are Hattons, TMC, Sheffield Transport Models, and Modelmania (the latter was a Bristol model shop that closed last year). Many other retailers who do not sell on ebay have stocks of them due to the market being awash with them due to duplication of models and at end of the day the limited scope to run one authentically on a layout set in a specific location
 

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QUOTE If they DO know about it, why have they not issued a recall and remedied all stock before it gets into consumers hands, damaging decoders and causing consequential problems?

In all the decades I have been modelling I have never seen a recall of any sort by any associated manufacturer, except Hornby when they highlighted a problem with some of their TTS decoders.
 

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QUOTE (RAFHAAA96 @ 22 Feb 2019, 09:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In all the decades I have been modelling I have never seen a recall of any sort by any associated manufacturer, except Hornby when they highlighted a problem with some of their TTS decoders.
Bachmann recalled some A1s for replacement motor to be fitted and Hornby corrected a batch of Maunsell coaches; Dapol have replaced 68 bodies with one side liveried incorrecly
 

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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 18 Feb 2019, 22:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A heads up for HORNBY Adams Radial tank owners

After excellent feedback from a customer, we have checked....
Regards, Richard

Was that me over two years ago ?

I'm surprised that this is still an issue!

Here's the wiring diagram which mine had as delivered:



As can be seen, it's not a problem on DC, but on DCC, there are track connections to function outputs which well and truly blows decoders!

Until I realised that there was a problem, I observed sparking coming from the front bogie. The loco would run intermittently.

PS: Not sure why image linking on this website isn't working. Image URL is: http://www.gppsoftware.com/software/Hornby...alCircuitry.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
***Nope graham, it was a UK modeller

regards, Richard
 
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