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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone Just received my Deltics with ESU V5 sound first impressions they look fabulous including the boxe's
Rails sent them both together parcelforce 1st class 24hour for £4.00 that is a very fair price indeed. Anybody else get them Babs
 

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Not yet, as unfortunately Accurascale have mangled this model by going for the bad old compromise of significantly underscale diameter wheels; and the bogie frames may not be right either, as the axlebox moulding centres are below the underscale wheel centres. It's a classic in the 'spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar' tradition.

I was on this issue very early after announcement in 2018 to see if Accurascale might consider a solution which offered options of 'no compromise but you need 30" minimum radius in OO and more like five feet in P4', and the necessary compromises for R2 capability: underscale wheels to clear under the body work, and a (user removeable) packing piece to adjust body ride height to correct buffer height with underscale wheels. (For sure the axle box centres would then have been above the underscale wheel axle centres, about the same amount that the model has them below the axle centre, so clearly enough acceptable by Accurascale's standards.) I would have envisaged the model sold in R2 capable form, with an option to buy the correct diameter wheels as spares for DIY installation by the nutters who wanted it right.

I am now waiting for their EE type 3 to see if that has potential for retrofit bogies with scale diameter wheels and correct frames, should these be made available as spares.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Not yet, as unfortunately Accurascale have mangled this model by going for the bad old compromise of significantly underscale diameter wheels; and the bogie frames may not be right either, as the axlebox moulding centres are below the underscale wheel centres. It's a classic in the 'spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar' tradition.

I was on this issue very early after announcement in 2018 to see if Accurascale might consider a solution which offered options of 'no compromise but you need 30" minimum radius in OO and more like five feet in P4', and the necessary compromises for R2 capability: underscale wheels to clear under the body work, and a (user removeable) packing piece to adjust body ride height to correct buffer height with underscale wheels. (For sure the axle box centres would then have been above the underscale wheel axle centres, about the same amount that the model has them below the axle centre, so clearly enough acceptable by Accurascale's standards.) I would have envisaged the model sold in R2 capable form, with an option to buy the correct diameter wheels as spares for DIY installation by the nutters who wanted it right.

I am now waiting for their EE type 3 to see if that has potential for retrofit bogies with scale diameter wheels and correct frames, should these be made available as spares.
Talk about a Negative reply why don't you tell accurascale how to make them. For me i am really happy with my two. Babs
 

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Talk about a Negative reply why don't you tell Accurascale how to make them...
If you had read what I posted, then you would know that I (and others) made suggestions to this end. We knew the difficulties this design presents, and were interested enough to propose a better way. Other manufacturers have listened in the past to input on 'difficult prototypes', with superior models as a result. Sadly it didn't happen this time.

And what's negative in pointing out product deficiencies? It's the essence of customer power, and if sufficient people point out such aspects, the manufacturer may just decide to do better.
 

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I thought they were sold out so thank you for this link.

I get where 34C is coming from and I also appreciate Babs point of view. I wasn't going to buy one as I only ever saw Deltics on the GN main line and as I have so often boringly reminded folks I model BR fifties/early sixties Great Eastern. I can have a variety of large LNER steam engines as I spotted A3s, A1s, A2s and A4s at Cambridge. Top Shed had a running in turn to Cambridge and back for locos that had been serviced or repaired ............ oh and diversions via Ely when the GN main line north of Hitchin was closed for any reason. What I never saw in Cambridge was a Deltic. I presume that Finsbury Park had no requirement for such a running in turn (fitters supplied on East Coast services perhaps).

I also have a Bachmann 55 and DP1. What a livery .......... the excitement of seeing the original Deltic growling at speed through Sandy can never be forgotten; a B16/3 wheezing up the incline to take it over the mainline with Deltic speeding south under that very bridge; etched in my memory.

So all that means that I do not need the Accurascale model ............... but then I followed the link and there it was ........... Pinza . with full sound. Yes it was 34C with his Woooommmm .......... voooooom ........... wooooompa etc that did it for me. Happy memories ........... brings me right back to my pimply youth. So I ordered one just a few minutes ago. Now I have to imagine that Pinza was rostered to haul a Newmarket Races special from Kings Cross to .. well Newmarket. No room to stable or service the train at Newmarket so it ran through to Bury St.Edmunds where it would run round, wait a few hours then ease back to Newmarket to pick up the winners/losers/drunks and take them back to London. S'my railway but I would like to know if that did ever happen.

Best regards ...................... Greyvoices (alias eagerly awaiting Deltic John)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi John Interesting read as always, Thank you. I was really upset what 34C wrote as he put the model down without buying He burst my Bubble of Joy
I ordered mine 4 years ago an in that time i nearly Died Twice, so i was absolutely elated to even get mine. I used to travel behind them many times from KX To Edinburgh waverley when i was travelling to & from Boarding School in the 60's. My last ride behind the Deltic in mainline service was 31st December 1979 on a Sleeper 1st class to Aberdeen from KX For my new Job as A Pilot For Dan- Air. Happy Day's I am glad you were able to get one Enjoy. Babs
 

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Aliteration .... Babs burst bubble. No need for any bubble to burst Babs.

I liked your memories as they bring our models to life. Goodness me, that takes me back ........... Dan Air. I wonder if you knew the Dan Air hostess who transferred from mid-air to work in the London office? I remember her commuting every day on my train between Cambridge and London. That would be late eighties.

I am like 34C in that I hate glaringly obvious in models but I lack the skill and patience to be a real rivet counter. I remember being really upset that a certain model shop ventured into model commissioning and then accepted an unusable pantograph specification ... for those of us who like to run our electric locos "pan-up" to get that characteristic up and down bobbing look. I was wrong at the time for being so harsh because I probably burst a few bubbles of joy.

I am quite a laid back sort of character but I too can have my intolerant moments.

Best regards .................... Greyvoices (alias John)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi John in relation to the young Hostess who travelled to London everyday. There was about 2500 cabin crew in Dan and 550 Pilots none of us got to know everyone.
I was Flying the Bae146 from 1986 and based at Gatwick until Dan's Demise in 1992 when i joined and went to Aberdeen and flew the HS748 Turboprop. Fantastic part of my life to say the least.
 

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...Top Shed had a running in turn to Cambridge and back for locos that had been serviced or repaired ...
Strictly that belongs to steam operation. The Deltics were initially maintained by EE (prob. Vulcan works Newton le Willows), and then a facility was established at Doncaster. The Deltic workings were necessarily intensive, to justify their high acquisition and operating cost, which meant the fast services KX - Leeds, Newcastle or Edinburgh, and return; which needed the extra power over the Brush, Derby and EE type 4s which could cope with all the other express passenger turns.

But who knows? This site used to be useful for this sort of information, but appears to have format problems in navigation. Deltics: Chronicles of Napier
 

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Indeed the Deltic workings were intensive, not just for the fact that they had to do the work of twice as many A4s when they were introduced.

Ive got an AS Deltic, it is Nimbus, unfortunately it has gone back for some rectification on a kinematic coupling mechanism which keeps sticking and causes the occasional derailment.

The detail is excellent, but I have had quite a few bits drop off (some during delivery) since receiving it whilst it trundles around. I think AS are on a steep learning curve with detail vs robustness, which I read they have acknowledged.

I am not bothered by the non scale wheel conundrum as to sell in the volume to make the model viable it had to be able to negotiate “trainset curves”, the people who demand 99% scale running usually find other specialist suppliers or scratch build for that near perfect model, you’ll never get it with mass production.
 
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...I've got an AS Deltic, it is Nimbus, unfortunately it has gone back for some rectification on a kinematic coupling mechanism which keeps sticking and causes the occasional derailment...
The fundamental problem is the tension lock coupler that is 'standard' for RTR OO product. It simply doesn't have the capability to work these cammed swinging linkages: what is required is a coupler system that links the NEM pockets as a rigid bar; that then 'works' the mechanisms correctly so that they recentre immediately as the vehicles exit curves. (I have been using the Roco pattern within sets of Bachmann and Hornby coaches with complete satisfaction for over 15 years, and plan to trial magnetic types.)

Of the Hornby diesels which exhibited the same problem - back in the day there were many threads on the subject - I have been able to test both the 30/31 and 50: substituting a Roco pattern coupler for the tension lock produced a reliable result with the coaches buffered up to the loco on straight track, and moved apart proportionally to the curve radius to prevent bufferlocking. I would expect the same to apply to the Accurascale implementation. It will be Accurascale's call whether they suggest a more suitable coupler; that would be the winning plan in my opinion.

...The detail is excellent, but I have had quite a few bits drop off (some during delivery) since receiving it whilst it trundles around. I think AS are on a steep learning curve with detail vs robustness, which I read they have acknowledged...
It has always been the case that the more refined the detail fit becomes - both in quantity of the really small parts represented, and adherence to scale dimensions - the greater the risk of detached parts. (Only once have I seen a small applied detail piece actually 'in the act' of falling off an OO model, generally they 'disappear' unseen.) This I feel we have to live with, if we want to operate the models. (Current champion, the NRM/Rapido Stirling single, nothing has fallen off - but then it is an occasional runner, and not daily 'belted along' on a heavy load - such as a Doncaster pacific or this diesel replacement would be, on 'my ECML' running timetable services.)
 

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The fundamental problem is the tension lock coupler that is 'standard' for RTR OO product. It simply doesn't have the capability to work these cammed swinging linkages: what is required is a coupler system that links the NEM pockets as a rigid bar; that then 'works' the mechanisms correctly so that they recentre immediately as the vehicles exit curves. (I have been using the Roco pattern within sets of Bachmann and Hornby coaches with complete satisfaction for over 15 years, and plan to trial magnetic types.)

Of the Hornby diesels which exhibited the same problem - back in the day there were many threads on the subject - I have been able to test both the 30/31 and 50: substituting a Roco pattern coupler for the tension lock produced a reliable result with the coaches buffered up to the loco on straight track, and moved apart proportionally to the curve radius to prevent bufferlocking. I would expect the same to apply to the Accurascale implementation. It will be Accurascale's call whether they suggest a more suitable coupler; that would be the winning plan in my opinion.


It has always been the case that the more refined the detail fit becomes - both in quantity of the really small parts represented, and adherence to scale dimensions - the greater the risk of detached parts. (Only once have I seen a small applied detail piece actually 'in the act' of falling off an OO model, generally they 'disappear' unseen.) This I feel we have to live with, if we want to operate the models. (Current champion, the NRM/Rapido Stirling single, nothing has fallen off - but then it is an occasional runner, and not daily 'belted along' on a heavy load - such as a Doncaster pacific or this diesel replacement would be, on 'my ECML' running timetable services.)
But mine was derailing without anything coupled up, it was light engine.

Once back mine will be running with Kadees anyway.
 

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But mine was derailing without anything coupled up, it was light engine...
In my experience this indicates snagging, and this can be in either or both of the concealed camming mechanism, and on the more visible coupler pocket and coupler contacting buffer beam detail. It can be very slow getting to a solution that retains as much detail as possible, but at least you have Accurascale on the job...
...Once back mine will be running with Kadees anyway.
Much better than the tension lock, but the Kadee doesn't form the ideal rigid link between the NEM pockets. What I found did the best job in restricting hinging between the Kadees was melting the NEM pocket interior with an old screwdriver modified to match the end of a no 5, and fitting a no 5. (Well that was how I used to do it, but have now abandoned putting Kadees into NEM pockets of passenger stock, and am instead body mounting them through the bufferbeam. It looks rather neat having a buckeye correctly positioned right under the Pullman gangway faceplates. )

Whatever, you can have fun experimenting to find what you feel is best.
 

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In my experience this indicates snagging, and this can be in either or both of the concealed camming mechanism, and on the more visible coupler pocket and coupler contacting buffer beam detail. It can be very slow getting to a solution that retains as much detail as possible, but at least you have Accurascale on the job...

Much better than the tension lock, but the Kadee doesn't form the ideal rigid link between the NEM pockets. What I found did the best job in restricting hinging between the Kadees was melting the NEM pocket interior with an old screwdriver modified to match the end of a no 5, and fitting a no 5. (Well that was how I used to do it, but have now abandoned putting Kadees into NEM pockets of passenger stock, and am instead body mounting them through the bufferbeam. It looks rather neat having a buckeye correctly positioned right under the Pullman gangway faceplates. )

Whatever, you can have fun experimenting to find what you feel is best.
To restrict movement on the Kadee 17-20 you just need a tiniest blob of (I use super Phatic from deluxe) glue on the pivot, but NOT the horn pivot :LOL:
 
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The fundamental problem is the tension lock coupler that is 'standard' for RTR OO product. It simply doesn't have the capability to work these cammed swinging linkages: what is required is a coupler system that links the NEM pockets as a rigid bar; that then 'works' the mechanisms correctly so that they recentre immediately as the vehicles exit curves. (I have been using the Roco pattern within sets of Bachmann and Hornby coaches with complete satisfaction for over 15 years, and plan to trial magnetic types.)

Of the Hornby diesels which exhibited the same problem - back in the day there were many threads on the subject - I have been able to test both the 30/31 and 50: substituting a Roco pattern coupler for the tension lock produced a reliable result with the coaches buffered up to the loco on straight track, and moved apart proportionally to the curve radius to prevent bufferlocking. I would expect the same to apply to the Accurascale implementation. It will be Accurascale's call whether they suggest a more suitable coupler; that would be the winning plan in my opinion.
I bought several ROCO couplers not the Hornby copies which are a cheaper moulding from the same pattern it appears, but even with the ROCO you don’t get the delayed uncoupling that the Kadees are able to do, I also found that even the genuine ROCO (and same with Fleischmann) couplings they needed a fair old force to couple up, far more than was prototypical without spilling everyone in the buffet coaches teas and coffee.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
David I bought some excellant couplings a few months ago which i had never seen before they are Liliput. So i have replaced all my Swiss stock with them supplied by MSL

Babs
 
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