[Gary]

How about practical answers to practical questions.

Now given that I class myself as an average proprietory home hobbyist playing with transient set track layouts my largest ever home layout had 19 points, 8 signals and had 6 trains on the track at any one time. This was an exception and 10 points is more the norm.

How many addresses would I need to have this all under DCC control?

Even with DCC it will be impossible for me to ever have more than 19 points and maybe a maximum of 10 trains somewhere on the layout.

OK I may have more than 10 locomotives but I would never go out and buy a chip for them all. I may have a pool of chips which I can move around depending on which locos I want to have a DCC play with.

So for somebody in my circumstances and assuming I had 10 loco chips max and liked the idea of sound, lights and smoke how much address capacity do I, and others like me, need?

There is absolutely no way I personally would chip 50 locos as that would leave 40 locos with chips standing idle and not earning their money. However for those happy to do this then fine. Not a problem.

Another question. Does a loco require more than one address reserved if sound and lights are fitted?

And I would like to consider return loops so does this feature use up address capacity?

Maybe somebody could provide a menu so that we could all see how many addresses you need for each feature of a model railway so that we could all do our own capacity count.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE Yes you will get by with a two digit address system but it is not an international standard.

There is not really an official international standard on this. The NMRA standard does not cover this area.

Am I right or wrong?

Really this topic is designed to help the newbee such as me who is likely to get confused by all this recent talk of addresses.

Have no doubt that I am after a Hornby Elite unit as this should be more than OK for my own personal needs with the 255 address capacity. I like the idea of a link to a PC, the extra power as standard and the ability to call up a loco by name. I do have one on order for £92.50 from Ontracks.

All we want to know is how many are actually required for a typical British home layout. I accept layouts produced by modellers outside the UK are going to be a lot bigger and may well require a DCC set up to match.

This is not really a discussion about 2 or 4 digit addressing.

The points made about fitting decoders is valid and if they are just £8 to £10 then its not so bad is it. The days of undoing 1 screw to remove a body have long since gone with the latest Brit products and older 1 screw products are not DCC ready.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

Hmm. Confusion reigns.

How about creating a definitive list of DCC features and the number of addresses required with a range offered if this is variable.

Lets start with this list:-

Steam Loco
Steam Loco lights
Steam Loco sound
Steam Loco smoke effect
D+E
D+E lights
D+E sound
D exhaust fume effect
Coach lights
Coach sound
Wagon lights
Wagon sound
Points/turnouts single slip
Points/turnouts double slip
Signals semaphore per control rod
Signals light 1 colour
Signals light 2 colour
Signals light 3 colour
Turntable
Uncoupler ramp
Return loop
Isolated track section power on/off
Loco inertia setting start
Loco inertia setting stop
Route setting
Scenic accessories
Set up loco address on special track
For link to PC
For additional cabs (portable control consoles)
For cab plug in fixed network

Now are there any other features that can be controlled by DCC and if there are please add to the menu.

Would somebody be brave enough to put address quantities required to the features in the range 0 to 10 or higher. This could open up a whole new discussion of course!

However this sort of guide should help us all to work out how many addresses we are likely to require for a given layout.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

So functions are a subset of addresses?

So looking at the list would it be fair to say that (for example) a 3 light signal might require 1 control address and 3 functions?

And a loco would require 1 control address and a number of functions to control loco accessories?

Maybe we need to look more closely at functions?

Should this be a seperate topic or is it a subset of this topic?

How a control console handles functions once an address is called up seems like a key area for those wishing to have all singing all dancing locomotives and rolling stock.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE So it would be nice if the command station remembered this for you and associated alpha tags with each function (on each registered loco). Then you could immediately see that on '38' F3 would ring the bell, while on 87 it controls a set of lights.

That makes sense. For each address you should be able to input a menu for each function that is in use so that when you call up the address the functions are shown as a menu under and you know exactly which button to press to ring a bell or blow a whistle or play a sound.

Something like this on the lcd console screen should appear:-

Scotsman

Whistle 1
Chuff 2
Hiss 3
Lights 4
Brake Squeel 5
Fireman 6

However I would also guess that a consistent approach when setting functions would make this relatively easy to remember, decoder permitting of course!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE But it does nothing for choice in the UK market which has led to the lack of quality that is served up by the local manufacturer.

This same manufacturer is producing some of the finest models ever served up for the European markets at European prices. See the new Rivarossi Big Boy specification. Hornby are very capable of producing quality and high value products so those who think otherwise are on the wrong track. Yes I know I know however don't mistake production issues on a small sample of product with quality and value. And don't mistake offering something at a high price as offering something of quality either. Hornby produce products for the UK market and products for the European market (as do Bachmann). Different markets have different customers with different aspirations and nothing wrong with a company that has the flexibility to accomodate this.

Its companies that fail to adapt to the customers needs that struggle.

Hornby are very capable of producing a £300 DCC system (as are Bachmann) however it would gather dust on the UK stockists shelves. Thats the reality.

There is absolutely no way going forward that we should be sniping at UK Hornby DCC users just because they are considered to have a "junior" system by the DCC elite. How does this reflect on the incumbant DCC community?

Model Rail Forum wants to welcome all DCC users new and old and the new breed will be looking for help from the old breed. Thats how it should be!

Now back to the topic in hand.

Happy modelling
Gary

PS spending is all relative and having visited a few websites its very clear that we have modellers at MRF with deep pockets. Nothing wrong with that and there are fantastic layouts featured that some of us can only dream about. For those on a tighter budget and with limited space then the cost of a DCC system may also have to be relatively scaled down hence this need in this topic to establish how things such as address capacity requirements for a layout can be calculated.

 

[Gary]

MMaD. I was not having a go at anyone in particular on the DCC side and you are welcome to share your views. OK as you say the Hornby set up may have its limitations and users in time may move on. I believe that the DCC industry in the UK broadly welcomes the Hornby move as it should encourage large numbers to have a go and see the benefits for themselves for a relatively small outlay. If users ultimately want more then there are plenty of options.

Now I am as curious as David is about what you feel may be missing from your Digitrax system.

It was more the general opinion that British manufacturers are not capable of making a quality product which seemed slighty unfair. Given that there is a wide viewing audience for all views and opinions expressed at Model Rail Forum it was really a question of providing some balance and food for thought.

There could well be a lot of new British DCC users in 2007 and having made the jump into the brave new world it surely has to provide them with a better feeling that they have made the right move if we are seen to be helpful rather than sowing seeds of doubt.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE The Yanks are good at customer service.

Accepting that is normally the case ultimately it depends on which territory you are in. Some might say that Hornby Customer Service in the UK is second to nobody and I really mean no UK company in any field!

It may be hard for those outside the UK to understand this but it does go a long way to explain why Horby are held in such high regard by its UK customers. And as things get more technical for those customers then the good customer service will be essential.

And generally you only need customer service when things go wrong. Warley MRC are having a difficulty with a certain manufacturer as the console keeps cutting out and its not a short. The manufacturer seem to have little interest much to the frustration of those club users experimenting with the set up. There seem to be a few shrugged shoulders among club members. And there are some experianced DCC users in the club. The manufacturer has not yet offered to take the equipment back which Hornby would do immediately if all avenues had been explored. I'll report in due course as and when things develope. I do not want to name names at this stage however this is a real life experiance of "American" customer service as applied to the UK.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

As a mini theme seems to be developing I've started a new topic in The Station Concourse. This should allow those who wish to continue the customer service theme to do so without disprupting the DCC content of this thread too much:-

Customer Service

Happy modelling
Gary