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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so I'm mad!

At least I can blame it on the tablets, plus I may as well make the most of it as I have no idea whats going to happen when I see the consultant next week!

But too much time laying here resulted in me buying two old airifx kits for cheap money:-

A 'schools' class Harrow and
A 9F Evening star plastics OO kit.

Had a quick look at them, and I'm going to have a bit of play around.
Just ordered the full replacement chassis kit, motor,gearbox and wheels from Comet models, who do the complete kit for both of these Airfix kits.

Only ordered the Schools class first, need to rob a bank just to pay for the wheels!! Hate to think what it's going to cost for the 9F..2-10-0 far too many wheels!

Probably works out that it would be cheaper to just go buy a brand new, but where's the fun in that?
Which really does make this suited to the niche market of locos that will never be made as RTR.

Anyway I want to see if it's possible to use as much of the original kit as I can, before using the replacement chassis, why?
I want to see if it's possible to do! If I can do it Airfix can, with slight mods to the kits of course!

Plus I've never built anything like this before so it needed to be done, next progression as they say.
If my employer can let me loose on million pound machinery then I'm sure I can do something with this, it may end up as a brand new 4-8-4 'Night school' loco (that was lame
)
But hey the fun is in the trying!

Who else could keep you guessing with what obscure plan I'm going to do next!

As always photos will become available when I take them.

Cheers
 

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Chief mouser
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11,775 Posts
Hmmm.................I wonder what I could do with that unmade Kitmaster Stirling single I have lurking around under the sofa - anyone got a spare Lord of the Isles chassis?

Regards
 

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Just another modeller
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9,983 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 13 Jun 2008, 21:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does it look like this?

Looks like Key kits do a 4-2-2 chassis:-

KEYKITS milestones range

ML6/9 Looks like the one....No excuse now


***Hi Ian

If its the pills making you do it then please keep taking them - and if you can spare a few, send me some!

I love building loco's (my favourite part of the hobby) and think your project is an excellent one - there's nothing more satisfying than creating something thats uniquely your own handiwork.

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Chief mouser
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11,775 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 13 Jun 2008, 14:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yup - that's the one, still might go for a RTR chassis though.

Regards
 

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Administrator
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9,845 Posts
QUOTE Just ordered the full replacement chassis kit, motor,gearbox and wheels from Comet models, who do the complete kit for both of these Airfix kits.

I am interested to hear how you get on with this. My worry is that you have to be super careful to get a nice square chassis that sits flat on the rails. I have a worry that I'd end up with something that would always have one corner in the air.

David
 

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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
David,

On the comet website, there is a downloads tab, click on this and there is a list of downloads; scroll down to the :

"Building Loco Chassis the Comet way"

A very useful read, gives hints tips instructions and photos to get the best results.

Will post photos as and when, I had to buy just about everything though...jigs and special tools as I've not done anything like this before.
Should come in handy though for when....or if I build another!

Got to have a go at some point!
I'm more bothered about the painting and lining than any of the building works!

Cheers
 

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Administrator
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QUOTE "Building Loco Chassis the Comet way"

A very useful read, gives hints tips instructions and photos to get the best results.

Thanks for the pointer. I have read it and it scared me a bit, but I think I probably worry too much....

David
 

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Registered
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189 Posts
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 13 Jun 2008, 13:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***Hi Ian

If its the pills making you do it then please keep taking them - and if you can spare a few, send me some!

I love building loco's (my favourite part of the hobby) and think your project is an excellent one - there's nothing more satisfying than creating something thats uniquely your own handiwork.

Richard
DCCconcepts

Yup, can I have some of them pills too. (We may get censured by the customs and excise for pill pushing etc)

but as Richard says, it is the best part of the hobby and as you said Wiggy, What's the fun in getting the loco off the shelf (although I do buy brand new sometimes as with a super detailed ' Arthur of Connaught' I got for my birthday a few years ago (and still in the box though I have run it a couple of times, I keep if for special occasions)

What a hobby
 

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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
QUOTE (dwb @ 13 Jun 2008, 18:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for the pointer. I have read it and it scared me a bit, but I think I probably worry too much....

David

I have some Diazepam tablets left
I'm sure they wil take the worry away from probably most things!

I've just thought if I build it while on the tablets it's bound to look perfectly square!!

There's another point to that though "If you build it" who exactly might come


If I don't have a go now I never will. If I make a hash of it, the frames can be bought as a separate item at £11.00 so not too bad.

Cheers
 

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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Here we go then,

The original Schools Class Harrow as it came from Airfix, the typical glue together kit:-



This is the kit chassis components with cylinders, slides all the connecting rods, front bogie and all those lovely wheels, which happen to be attached to the sprues on the wheel edges!!! So that keeps them round!
I have dry assembled this lot and to be fair it does all work, a little tight but the slides and motion do work!



Ordered the complete chassis kit from Comet models yesterday and today a little box of goodies turned up, I have to say the guy i spoke to was very helpful and knew his stuff, told him what I wanted to do and that I'd never done one, he did warn me that I'd picked one of the hardest due to the cylinders and motion!
He just said take your time, follow the instuctions and just call if I needed any advice or help.
Customer service or what!, here's what I've got:-



This is the full chassis kit as can be seen in the lefthand side packet, along with motor, Romford nut spanner, gearbox and all new spangly wheels!

So open up the Full Chassis kit bag and we find this little lot, all of which can bought individually:-



Which contains:- the frames, front bogie, Cylinders and the motion set.

Oh what have I done
all for the princely sum of £91


As the original plastic kit cost £12, I suppose in the grand scheme of things it's not too bad, saying that though I could have bought a RTR all painted and running for less than that!
I wouldn't have built it then though would I!
If I wanted to buy a complete brass kit I'd be looking at another £100 at least on top of that I reckon, so I think it's a good way to make a start on my first ever kit buit loco.

This one may take some time!

Cheers
 

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Administrator
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This is definitely going to be vicarious* experience for me. It's a scary thing looking at those 2D etched frets knowing you are supposed to make a 3D model out of them. I admire your courage sir; and when you succeed you will deserve to be known as "Sir Wiggy25"

David
*I chose the word carefully and checked the definition here on the free Cambridge online dictionary. My understanding is that it usually used in a less than complimentary way.
 

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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QUOTE It's a scary thing looking at those 2D etched frets knowing you are supposed to make a 3D model out of them

I didn't actually now what was meant by fret until a few months ago!!

QUOTE (Brian Considine @ 14 Jun 2008, 11:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>look forward to seeing the progress & the finished model.

Brian.....so am I!
 

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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
You know you want to see it!!!



Well David the first 2D etch now 3D just lots more to go!

My first ever brass soldering, started doing this then realised it's the most expensive part!!
It also happens to be one of the most critical getting the motor and gears lined up!

I'm well happy with it, put power on, and it all drives as well


Looks like there's loads of solder, there isn't! you don't need hardly any, just put a little bit on the soldering iron hold it on the brass, some smoke a fizzle of flux later and it just flows everywhere!
Everything needs to be clean though, I found that out, when I soldered the bearings into the side plates. Pushed the bearing into the hole after slapping a fair bit of flux around it, held soldering iron against the base of the bearing and you can see the solder start running all the way round!
The bearings did stick out a fair bit on the outside, it says file them down if your short of space, so I filed them down anyway as I don't know, better then than when it's all built!

Question for those in the know, the worm gear on the motor shaft and the idler gear are both held on by a very small grub screw, does any body put loctite on these, not glue!!
I have a range in my works tool box from super concrete I think thats 243, to just thread lock which isn't so bad, or do you just not need to bother?

Cheers
 

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Registered
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1,147 Posts
Well done Wiggy I'll be interested in seeing the finished loco.
I built an Airfix schools but used the hornby chassis. I built it pretty well straight from the box but I did replace the moulded handrails with wire and knobs. As I had had the kit for some time and used new spares rather than buying a whole model it probably worked out slightly cheaper than a new Hornby but the pleasure in building something for yourself is priceless.It also has the multiple blast pipe and chimney of course which sets it aside from Hornby's.
It will be interesting to see how the Comet chassis goes together as I have a Comet kit to put under a Wrenn City but so far haven't had the nerve to start.
It's a pity the price of Markits/Romford wheels has sky-rocketed in recent times.
If I might add a little here about motorising the Kitmaster Stirling Single,- I have posted some pics under "on my workbench' GVR layout that you and BRITHO might find interesting . The Bachmann Emily chassis would never fit in the KM body and I do not think that the Lord of the Isle chassis would fit either . My preference would be an unmotorised chassis with a powered tender drive . I have tested the Hornby parallel boilered Patriot tender drive in the Singles tender and it does fit. The weight has to be either cut to size or new weights made. I'm sure this would result in a more powerful loco . There is a snag though - 32 mm driving wheels dont appear to be made by Markits any more , although perhaps Gibson might. My conversion of Emily will haul only two lightened Hornby coaches up my 1-in-36 inclines.
Best of luck with all your projects,
Tony
 

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Just another modeller
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9,983 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 15 Jun 2008, 01:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The bearings did stick out a fair bit on the outside, it says file them down if your short of space, so I filed them down anyway as I don't know, better then than when it's all built!

Question for those in the know, the worm gear on the motor shaft and the idler gear are both held on by a very small grub screw, does any body put loctite on these, not glue!!
I have a range in my works tool box from super concrete I think thats 243, to just thread lock which isn't so bad, or do you just not need to bother?

Cheers

***A good start Ian, well done. Do read & follow the chassis assembly advice from Comet - it will help a lot.

When you mount the gearbox on the axle, use some etched 1/8" washers on the axle each side to keep it loosely centralised between the frames. If U can't get etched washers you can use stamped ones but rub each side on some medium wet and dry t reuly flatten them (they get a wee cusp when stamped and that makes them not so smooth). Ditto to keep the final gear in best position for the intermediate gear.

Re fixing the gears, I actually prefer to use Loctite and no grub screw at all as the grub screw will very slightly decentralise the gear and can cause less than perfect running. Never had a gear come loose doing it this way, but boy they do seem to stick like S to a blanket when U want to remove them :).

The loctite I use to fix the gear is the stronger one - not a simple gentle thread locker - I can't remember the number but its green... I think its used to secure steel pins and studs in engine blocks etc so they won't ever move.

the benefit of using loctite as the primary gear fixing is that it really flows around the axle and helps perfectly cetralise the gear (even though they feel like they are a tight fit, they will move to one side or the other if not centralised somehow)

If you are nervous about no grub screw then file a small "flat" on the axle only where the grub screw goes & then drill the axle to take the tip of the grubscrew with a little clearance and then you can seat it "just home but not tight" and lock it in place with a wee bit of glue to stop it loosening, actually securing the gear to the axle with loctite. Then if the loctite still lets go the gear will still be keyed to the axle with the grubscrew and you'll probably not notice.

When you loctite the gear to axle: first clean it and the gear / bearings thoroughly with some solvent. Put it as close to "in position" as you can. put a wee bit of oil on the outside of each bearing and rotate the axle to coat the bearing/axles only, then apply the loctite into the grubscrew hole with a pin or something similar. turn the gear a couple of times while holding the axle to spread the loctite - let the loctite flowing round "centralise" the gear and go off before seating the grubscrew.

Try not to get too much in the grubscrew thread but if U do don't worry - its only messy as the Loctite won't usually go off in the grubscrew hole as its thixatropic - it only sets in when in a thin film between parts and when air is excluded - most loctites also only "go off" when in contact with steel - ie the axle.

Regards

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Update time,

It's not been too bad, so far!
The cross heads and motion gear for the valves is a nightmare!! Hence you can only see the mounting plate sitting on top of the frames.
The cyclinder frame is bent to shape and that is alos sitting on the frames right at the front, still need to solder the overlays to the sides of the front bogie.

But it rolls very free and easy!!!!!
For the very first go at a brass kit I'm well chuffed!
Long way yet to go but getting there!

Click on images to see them at a larger size.






Cheers

Oh, consultant believes it's a slipped disc, MRI scan on Monday!
Fantastic, I've now had pins and needles in my left foot for three weeks, and there's nothing they can do about it until they have seen and reviewed the scan!
I'm going to fire up my rip saw and chop the bloody thing off!
 

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Administrator
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Nice looking set of wheels there


David
 
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