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· Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Neil,

Having looked at quite alot of the brass kits, I was never going to risk the sort of money involved without doing something a bit cheaper first!

I didn't actually know about these old Airfix kits, so when I saw these on Ebay and won them for cheap money it made sense to have a go.

What helped was cometmodels actually making the chassis sets for these Airfix/Dapol plastic kits.
The whole kit including motor, gearbox and wheels was £91, which to me is fairly cheap when you look at the cost of other 'full' brass kits.

Ok the detail in the plastic kit isn't anywhere near that of a full brass kit, but it gives me a starting point and confidence booster as I've never built one before.
I could also file some of the plastic mouldings off and replace them with brass components, such as hand rails and the like, not that I'm going to.
I just want to see if I can get a reasonable model out of a plastic kit.

I would just go for it, it looks like there are plenty of these Airfix/dapol kits knocking about for cheap money, then just get the chassis kit for it.
It looks like I will have to do more surgery on the plastic kit than on the chassis, to get it all to fit correctly!

If you have a look at the Dapol web site under OO and look under kits, scrolling through that lot shows lots of available kits.
Check on other sites first to see if you can get the chassis for it, then just go for it!

This link shows one of the many Dapol kits.

Dapol Evening Star kit

This is the chassis kit for the above loco from cometmodels,I actually have the Airfix kit of this model, so this one will be next!

Comet Models 9F kit

When I called comet, you have the choice, of buying and building a complete new tender or just buying the chassis and wheels then using this fitted to the tender that comes in the plastic kit.

Have to start somewhere, and for me this was the cheapest option, and it's not going too bad at the minute, although that will no doubt change!

Cheers
 

· Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Ok so I have no idea what I'm doing!

I have the Romford wheels and crankpins and spacer washers.
Reading the instructions, I place the connecting rod onto the crankpins of the two large wheels, followed by the coupling rod from one large wheel to the crosshead valve mechanism, on top of this fits the return crank.

Then what, do the washers fit on last thing?
Are these washers soldered to the crankpins to hold the connecting rods on?

I'm a bit lost now, instructions do tell you which order to put everything on in but not where the washers go or how you fix things to the crankpins, any help would be useful!

Cheers
 

· Just another modeller
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9,967 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 20 Jun 2008, 23:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ok so I have no idea what I'm doing!

I have the Romford wheels and crankpins and spacer washers.
Reading the instructions, I place the connecting rod onto the crankpins of the two large wheels, followed by the coupling rod from one large wheel to the crosshead valve mechanism, on top of this fits the return crank.

Then what, do the washers fit on last thing?
Are these washers soldered to the crankpins to hold the connecting rods on?

I'm a bit lost now, instructions do tell you which order to put everything on in but not where the washers go or how you fix things to the crankpins, any help would be useful!

Cheers

***

Ian, I'll try to help but I'm doing it blind not having the same kit to hand - the techniques are mine - you can vary or follow other instructions If U have them...

DO buy the Iain Rice book on building loc's - it explains all this stuff really well!!

So have U got the gearbox installed?

This should be on and tested as smooth running with the centre axle/drivers and then all the wheels in the chassis and properly quartered before U solder the rods on.

fitting the rods... Before U solder anything, test the chassis with the rods on.

place them over the crankpins and use some insulation stripped from wire slipped over the crankin to hold them. If the alignment of rods and crankpins is good, and you have got the quartering right (one side all 90 degrees offset from the other) it should run very freely.

If not you will have to look closely at the rods at the tight spot where it binds and find which rod it is... carefully open out that specific connecting rod hole only left and right only with the tip of a round fine needle file.

For the front and rear driver crankpins:

Before putting the rods in place paint around each hole both sides with a spirit based texta of felt tip pen - this helps stopping solder going where U don't want it.

Now put the cranks in place, cut a tiny bit of thin paper (standard typing paper etc) and make a small hole in it. Put it onto the crankpin. Now, slightly countersink one side of the turned washer and slip it onto the crankpin with the slight countersink facing you. press it doen gently so it slightly cmpresses the paper between washer and rod and carefully solder the washer to the crankpin.

(the paper stops solder and creates a slight spacing for free running. the countersinking allows a fillet of solder for a strong joint and it will that there then it will not let go when U later carefully clip the pin and file it flat to the washer face)

repeat with other side.

Now, the centre pins / crank .

I'm flying blind as I don't know the detail of the kit U have but generally one washer goes on the centre pin after the connecting rod is in place, then a thin bit of paper, then the crank.

If your kit asks for it be sure you did the two slight bends in the crank to create the vertical offset for the clearance of the valve rod before you start this!!

tin the face of the crank boss with a very very thin coat of solder then slightly countersink the hole in the etched crank on the side facing you with a fine drill hand-held and place it on the crankpin. Make sure you get the right position - usually about 20 degrees leading. Check your prototype for this!!

Solder the crank to the washer and crankpin carefully and quickly - be very sparing of flux on all these joints - and be quick. the paper washers & texta will prevent solder sticking the ther side of the washer to the connecting rods.

You will now need to clip off and file the front and rear pins flat. However test run the chassis again before trimming the centre one as you may have to remove it or adjust it and that easiest with a long pin. connecting.

Don't forget to remove the paper washers you used as a solder barrier... (I usually just wet them with a little oil and they work their way out assisted by a bit of judicious help from a scalpel tip)

Good luck....

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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excellent efforts, wiggy25, well done.

On the subject of chassis costs, the wheels themselves form a substantial part, do they not, of the cost?

How do Hornby or Bachmann spare wheelsets compare, price-wise?

[today's offerings are a lot 'finer' than those of old.....NMRA profiles?]
 

· Just another modeller
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9,967 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 20 Jun 2008, 23:59) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks Richard,

This is the link to the loco that I'm actually building!

Schools class

Hopefully that should help!

Cheers

***Help who Ian??


Generally the advice applies OK to the asswmbly & valve gear as I wrote it... What I meant was I don't have the specific kit in front of me as there can be small changes maker by maker that need small technique changes - however looking at the loco I'd say you can do it as I said it in general, except that I wrote it for a 6 coupled not a 4.

The 4 will be easier to get smooth - only two crankpins each side is an easy (easier anyway) path to tread!

regards

Richard
 

· Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Thanks Richard,

The advice about soldering on the crankpin washers is what I needed to know.
Having never fitted any, didn't have a clue.

The link was just meant to give an idea of what I'm building, I doubt if the body will look that good though!!

Need to test run it then paint it all, before any of that, which is going to have to wait!

Not slept properly in 4 days and the pain down my leg is crippling, pain killers just make me constantly feel sick.
This is not good! Hey ho MRI on Monday, then another week before I see the results to find out whats going to happen!
Nightmare!

Anyway will try and get some photos of the chassis, it's all nearly complete, should be able to connect most things up and run it up and down to see how it goes.
Trying to work out if there's a way of connecting the return crank and valve arm to the crankpin just to test the complete motion without soldering it all up.
Will look into that one!

Thanks again for the info, exactly what I needed!

Cheers
 

· Administrator
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10,744 Posts
QUOTE Trying to work out if there's a way of connecting the return crank and valve arm to the crankpin just to test the complete motion without soldering it all up.

A "touch" of Loctite which is designed to stick but which breaks if you try to "shear" the join? ie the objects joined won't pull apart but if you twist them - hey presto they do?

David
 

· Just another modeller
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9,967 Posts
QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 21 Jun 2008, 17:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks Richard,

The advice about soldering on the crankpin washers is what I needed to know.
Having never fitted any, didn't have a clue.

The link was just meant to give an idea of what I'm building, I doubt if the body will look that good though!!

Need to test run it then paint it all, before any of that, which is going to have to wait!

Not slept properly in 4 days and the pain down my leg is crippling, pain killers just make me constantly feel sick.
This is not good! Hey ho MRI on Monday, then another week before I see the results to find out whats going to happen!
Nightmare!

Anyway will try and get some photos of the chassis, it's all nearly complete, should be able to connect most things up and run it up and down to see how it goes.
Trying to work out if there's a way of connecting the return crank and valve arm to the crankpin just to test the complete motion without soldering it all up.
Will look into that one!

Thanks again for the info, exactly what I needed!

Cheers

Good luck Monday Ian

No, there's no way to fit the crank without soldering it up - but once you have tested the connecting rods as mentioned there will be no real need to either.... just check that the crosshead moves smoothly on the slidebar and it'll be fine.

Be confident - you are doing fine!

But:

DO get the book by Iain Rice - its published by Wild Swan I think... Iain writes really well and makes it sound interesting and easy - it'll be the best couple of quid you'll spend for a long time!! ...and it'll be something useful for you to read when the pills make working on the model a no-no.

Richard
 

· Just another modeller
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9,967 Posts
QUOTE (dwb @ 21 Jun 2008, 18:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A "touch" of Loctite which is designed to stick but which breaks if you try to "shear" the join? ie the objects joined won't pull apart but if you twist them - hey presto they do?

David

***Loctite only goes off in the presence of steel... none there to help it I'm afraid.... its all brass or nickel silver... PLUS its formualted to creep into joints so it can't be stopepd creeping deper in the valve gear which would gum it up anyway.

Anyway... Basically it can't be done with glue or it'll likely compromise the later soldering... but there's no need to either, if the quartering is right (and it will be with the self quartering axles Ian has) and the connector rod spacing is good (which is will be with a newer comet kit) then it'll be just fine.

Richard
DCCconcepts
 

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QUOTE ***Loctite only goes off in the presence of steel... none there to help it I'm afraid.... its all brass or nickel silver... PLUS its formualted to creep into joints so it can't be stopepd creeping deper in the valve gear which would gum it up anyway.

I was speculating on what might be needed. So Loctite don't do anything suitable. Is there a gap in the market or is it just Ian that needs something like that? I'm not a chemist so I can't help.

Thanks for the extra info Richard. I shall try to remember it, especially as I would one day like to follow in Ian's footsteps and build a chassis for myself, but I think I might choose an inside cylinder 0-6-0 to start with...

David
 

· Just another modeller
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9,967 Posts
QUOTE (dwb @ 22 Jun 2008, 06:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I was speculating on what might be needed. So Loctite don't do anything suitable. Is there a gap in the market or is it just Ian that needs something like that? I'm not a chemist so I can't help.

Thanks for the extra info Richard. I shall try to remember it, especially as I would one day like to follow in Ian's footsteps and build a chassis for myself, but I think I might choose an inside cylinder 0-6-0 to start with...

David

*** If you start with a more recent DJH Kit you'll do it standing on your head - they go together easily and in general instructions are excellent. Have a go!

Richard
 

· Ian Wigglesworth
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750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Thanks for all the help and info guys!

I have to say this Comet Models chassis kit is actually very good, each part comes in it's own bag with it's own instructions, which are easy to follow.

The only area where I was unsure was on the fixing of the crankpins and washers as all of the wheels axles crankpins are in their own bag, with no instructions.

As I've never done one didn't actually know how everything fitted on the crankpin.

Reading another forum, it looks like DJH are not holding much 4mm stock anymore, so yuo may need to put an order in and see if they have what you want or are likely to be making it.

Cheers
 

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QUOTE (wiggy25 @ 13 Jun 2008, 19:39) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A 9F Evening star plastics OO kit.

I did this a number of years ago: Comet 9F chassis under Airfix kit 9F. I did this in the early 90's when the only options were a (then) expensive DJH kit or the Hornby offering. Since I wanted a front-wheel-drive 9F (no tender drive), the Hornby offering was out and I couldn't afford the DJH. Bachmann didn't arrive on the scene with a 9F for at least another 10 years.
I undertook significant surery on the body of my loco, replacing all fittings with Crownline (now long since gone). The loco still runs happily around my layout to this day - will try and locate a photo.

Graham Plowman
 
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