[Julian2011]

Hello,
As can be seen at the side panel, I am not quite in the flush of youth, so have some experience in various modelling and engineering skills. This is on the grounds that, like most people of my age, we couldn't afford to pay for other persons to do things, so if you wanted something to work you found out how to make it do so and did it yourself. Model railways are, however, new to me and the best way to go about various of the many options is not always that obvious. Reading through the expertease on these posts makes for a very humbling experience.

The concept of the new layout is simply a OO railway for my 7 yr old girl to play trains and learn a few things as she does, hence the name. I have collected a number of trains that she and the family have been on and other bits so she can role play and also worked out some card based games to be played out on the layout. It also has to be capable of quick setting up and packing away, therefore not joining up loads of rails from a box every time.

There doesn't seem to be anything much new there then, apart from my [ lack of ] knowledge.

The solution given, running and packing away space limits, comes out at 4' 9" wide on 2 boards each 6' 6" long [ any Carpenters ahead of this one? ]. This was going to be a 50mm extruded foam sandwich glued to 4mm ply for the bread. It turned out that there were supply problems for a sheet of extruded foam 8ft x 4 ft, [ available - but mainly in full container lots ] so it ended up as 2 flush interior doors, which have the same principles, using corrugated card and the addition of a frame of 30mm x 30mm PSE. The idea is imported from aeroplane wings, light and strong. The bases are located with a couple of Mould Maker's Dowels where the rails pass above and a stretch of interleaving ply tongues under the mid section of the base, on either side of the divide. Over-centre clips keep them together.

The plan has a double loop with 3 sets of points between them and 3 other points to extensions in 3 corners. In the 4th corner is a tunnel with a terminal station on top with a few shunting / shed lines. There is a branch line inside the loops, running from a turnout on the inner loop and up a slope up to the Terminal.

I am just about to add the Bus Cable channels to the under side but here is the latest question.

Q. a. I have seen baseboards which have been both painted or unpainted.
b. If painting is to be done, it is clearly better to do it before fitting the Bus Cable channelling.
c. One topic even had a comment that the base was Primed, painted and varnished before anything was attached, to prevent any warping.
d. I am aware that Ply is pretty resistant to warping and my sandwich idea should be even less vulnerable to warp.

So .. Does the base really need to be painted on both sides and what is the easiest sort of paint that should be used if it is needed?

Thanks to all you kind people for taking the trouble to read.

Julian

 

[sean hpw]

I opted for painting both sides in emultion (nothing fancy just wikes value in a huge tub) or my other one is built on re-cycled kitchen unit sides, cut to the same width and bobs your uncle... it weighs an absalute ton though! although everyone does things differently, the most popular seems to be thick ply on a sturdy wooden under frame.

i'm sure others will be able to offer other ideas and more precice instructions though

Sean

 

[Brian Considine]

As long as the paint/varnish is the same both sides & seals the material it does not really matter.

For the small cost it could save a lot a future hassle.

Please keep us up to date (pictures are always nice.)

 

[Julian2011]

Thank you Sean & Brian,
It seems that, as Brian said, it is better to be safe and paint doesn't have to cost the earth.

I have a few Pictures of the job, to date and will get to one of the Flickr / Photobucket sites. I will then post a few here.

Thanks for the help.

Julian

 

[Julian2011]

Hi,
Here are a couple of Pictures of the locating system for the Baseboards,

The first is the Tongues on one Board.

This is how they lock together,

Here are the boards locked.

The ends have Mould Makers Pins. I had a bit of a job getting them to be absolutely in the right place, as it isn't possible to get behind the facing frames.

I will Post now to see if the photographs load.

Julian

 

[Julian2011]

Good, the pictures seem to work.

Now for the knotty little problem of matching the centres of the holes for the Mould Makers Dowels, when you can only access the front faces.

Take 2 x pieces of PSE, [ suitably sized ] one of which is carefully cut square across to the distance from the end of the board that you wish your pin centre to be. The other is cut shorter and then glued to the first piece as if they were a couple of steps.

When dried place the measured length to the end of the boards and draw a pencil line across the end.

You can see it in place after one of the female dowels is already done, so you can see where the mark will end up. So now you have a vertical line across the centre, which can be repeated on the opposing frame to match the distance exactly.

How about the horizontal? Take the same piece of glued wood and turn it through 90 degrees, then place it on the lower [ or upper ] surface of the baseboard. It should overlap the vertical line already drawn. [ The picture, again, shows it located to show how the measurement meets the centre of the female dowel. ]

Draw in the horizontal line across the vertical one and you have your centre marked for a pilot hole. Repeat on the matching face and you should have a pair of matched opposing centre marks.

Repeat for the other ends of the baseboard frames. Drill out the pilots and then the full size pit for the dowel bases then glue and screw them in. With care they fit together with a firm push fit and you have a baseboard top which runs smoothly from one to the other.

Julian

 

[Robert Stokes]

I'm not so sure that painting is necessary IF it is going to be kept in dry conditions. I haven't painted any part of my layout which has now been up for about three years. It is in an integral garage that has the car door sealed. It also has double-skinned, insulated walls and an insulated pitched roof so it is perfectly dry and quite warm with a small heater in winter.

I assume that your layout is going to be kept in the house so the same conditions should apply. On the other hand you may wish to paint it just to be sure.

Robert

 

[Brian Considine]

Even if I was sure of the conditions at present, you just don't know what's round the corner - personally, I'd seal the baseboards just in case.

 

[Julian2011]

Thanks Brian, I agree, see Post 4. The first primed board is drying as I type.

Julian

 

[A1A A1A]

All the best for your build.

cheers rab.

 

[Julian2011]

Hi, I have a Screen Print of the track plan showing the 2 x loops and the slope up to the Terminus, over the tunnel. It is quite possibly not what it may end up like but I have aimed to make it accessable and have room for the role play I mentioned in the OP.

The Flikr codes are different in this size, so I am not sure it will show yet. I will try this one before adding any more.

on Flickr

I have removed the Lines and Surfaces from the view, so the track is clearer but will attempt to show the other detail if this posts properly.

Julian

 

[Julian2011]

Hi again,
I got the picture to go in ok, it seems that the BBCode from Flickr should be pasted directly into the post without using the "Insert Image" button. So here is a Screen Print of the AnyRail plan of the layout with some roads and other details in.

I Screen Printed it with the track in the tunnel hidden, as it is easier to see the Terminus on the top of the tunnel. I have left the heights and %slope showing on the slopes too. [ Slope is 2.4% if it is too small to see. ]

I expect some of the buildings may get relocated slightly ...

by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

The next job is fitting the Bus Cable and its trunking, when the paint on the boards is finished and dry.

I used AnyRail, again, to draw a line plan, over the original plan above, for the Bus Cable and the droppers to see how many wires were required and where they might best run, under and on top of the board. It had to take into account the 4 x tressles which support the boards and whether there had to be cable joiners around the tressles. In the event I moved the planned scenery a little bit, under the track slope so the the Bus Cable can go from under the board to run across the top over where the tressles support the boards. That way there were less joins to be plugged in.

It seemed like a good idea to do as much work on the underside of the boards as was possible, before turning them over to lay the track on top. So I then flipped the wireing plan horizontally so I got a reversed wireing plan for working on the underside of the board. Looking at the wiring plan makes me think it will be quite a while before that is anywhere near finished.

Julian

 

[Nathan Burnham]

Looks good. I hope you will be able to access the inside of the tunnel so if a train loses its tail or comes adrift, you can get to it! Looks like you're going to have plenty of operation and much scenery! Good Luck!

 

[Julian2011]

Thank you Nathan,
My Father made a model railway, in the attic, over 60 years ago and it had many yards of tunnel. You are so right about access, almost all the derailments happenned in there. It was a real pain getting under the layout and fiddling the train back onto the tracks, even for a small youngster less than 10 yrs old.

I intend to lay the Terminus on 3" foam topped by 4mm Balsa, across to the tunnel walls. From there the Balsa will run onto a 3" high, 10mm PSE frame at the edges of the board. This will have a Balsa wall glued to it and a large access door on each of the 2 sides. If the Balsa isn't stiff enough over the Tunnel, I will Superglue some Carbon-Fibre Tow to the underside, inside the Tunnel and // to either side of the track on the top - that should sort it and still be very light.

There will also be 2 x 10mm Balsa uprights between the inner oval track and the rising slope track. The uprights will be topped by a beam, directly supporting the Balsa roof / Terminus base. I am also going to try to make the Castle with the defensive Earthworks removable, to get more access from the top [ brown square and green wavvy line ], if needed and maybe the Farm section too.

Julian

 

[sean hpw]

that sounds complex but doable, i have decided to incorporate a tunnel section into my own layout, but being on the backscene i can have an open slot in the back to allow access for derailments ect.

 

[Julian2011]

Hi Sean,
I thought about an open slot but came down on the side of a trapdoor, to stop derailed trains cannoning straight out onto the tile floor.

Basically, from where the Foam stops at the inner tunnel wall, it should be a simple superglued 10mm open box frame, with the Balsa top and vertical grain Balsa sides / door superglued on to it. Superglue is not very strong on its own but soaked into balsa, as a combination, it becomes very strong, not to mention the need for lightness given the size of the 2 boards.

I had considered foam all the way under the Terminus Balsa, with a gap for the Tunnel. That would have definitely meant having the remaining Tunnel parts removable [Castle and the Farm ]. There are road and edges which with other features which might be used to camouflage the joins. Like many of the discussions on the various Forii [forums? ] there isn't always a straightforward best answer. Still I have quite a bit of time before I have to make the Tunnel, so there may even be more ideas forthcoming - I have no doubt less complex too.

Julian

 

[sean hpw]

indeedee do, my boards for an end to end layout and the 'tunnel' is part of aa line that runs off to darby, so needs to be there but cant runn off into the distance, so it runs under the embankment out the way, emerging in the fiddle yard.

 

[Julian2011]

That's a good way to make trains disappear and a very clever use for an embankment, Sean. Your layout sounds Midland based and quite large.

Julian

 

[Julian2011]

Hi all,
The paint has now dried on the boards

and I think it is easier to fix the Bus Flex and channelling while the track is not laid, so I can work as much as possible with the work on top.

I have a length of 6'6" along each board and the Bus Wires are the red & black ones. Each Bus Branch is less than 4mtr in total [ ie. there and back ].


Milk Wiring Reverse by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

The formula for calculating wire cross section against voltage drop comes out like this.

Constant 18 ; Length mtr 5 ; Amps 6 ; Volts Drop 0.5 ; Km 1000 ; Size mm^2 1.08 ; Diam 0.6874mm.
Main

I have assumed a number of things; a max of 6Amps from an Elite [ let's not go there on the choice, we would get very distracted ] and entered the Wire Bus 5mtr, to be sure. However, I have factored in 0.5V as an acceptable drop. I have also taken it that the drop is on each individual wire and is not culmulative of all 5. This gives me a cross-section of near to 1mm^2

If this is correct, then I don't have to go and buy Bus Wire, as I have some wire from a couple of dead lawnmowers which is 1mm x section. So...

Q1. Is 0.5V a reasonable figure for the acceptable drop?
Q2. Is the assumption that the voltage drop is not culmulative ok?

Thanks for reading

Julian

 

[Robert Stokes]

I have read that bus wires should not make a complete circuit but should be more of a T-shape with the controller connected somewhere in the middle (not necessarily the exact middle by any means). I hasten to add that this is not my own knowledge but relayed from those who should know.

I have found, and others have agreed, that house mains cable (not lighting) makes very good bus wires of that sort of length.

Robert