[Gary]

For home layouts and proprietary models best to stick with code 100 track.

Models no longer have traction tyres. We complain when models do have traction tyres and we complain when they don't. Manufacturers cannot win really.

We have now moved to nickel silver track so the magnadhesion of older locomotives is no longer effective unless you purchase used steel track. Those who do the complaining probably forget how good the effect of magnadhesion was in giving the locomotive "virtual weight".

If anything motors are now effectively more powerful as gearing has been reduced on the latest models. And recent rolling stock is now super friction free so more can be hauled. If you are using modern traction tyre free locomotives and hauling older rolling stock which is not as free rolling as that produced recently, then really you are not in a position to complain. A solution is to replace all your old rolling stock with new.

We demand realism. The manufacturers offer realism. I prefer compromise and I don't mind traction tyres and can put up with a bit of loco wobble if it means my loco can haul 20 coaches.

Of course DCC does not like traction tyres. So we have to put up with locomotives that slip when pulling more than 12 coaches or locomotives that cannot go up inclines.

If you want real pulling power then you will require a loco with traction tyres such as the Hornby Class 9F Loco. Who would like to put money on the new Bachmann Class 9F outhauling an older Hornby Class 9f?

QUOTE Continental and American models are a lot better than either as they are far heavier

Compared to the Hornby and Bachmann offerings, Continental models are a lot more expensive and American models are made in hugely greater numbers so development costs spread across the massive volumes are much lower. I basically am very happy with the current arrangements in the UK and simply don't want continental style prices thank you very much. Lets keep the hobby in the UK mass market and not turn it into a niche hobby for the rich.

Hornby's roots are in offering value products and my view is if a Hornby locomotives runs as poorly as claimed above it is an issue with the track. Hornby have a Princess running for countless hours on their demonstration layout and it never comes off.

And I find Lima products complete with traction tyres OK on my Hornby track with an H & M Duette controller. Maybe I am more tolerant than most however if I am only paying £30 then I feel I am not able to complain!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE why do you say DCC does not like traction tyres? There is no obvious difference.

Analogue powered locos and equipment is more forgiving of power fluctuation spikes. No electronics to damage. I am not a DCC expert but this is how I interprete the discussion in the DCC section. Am I right or wrong?

Agreed that traction tyres don't help pick up but are they normally fitted to wheels that pick power up? They definitely help locos to haul more except when the rubber has perished. Traction tyres do require a change every so often.

As manufacturers have done away with traction tyres they have at the same time increased the number of wheels that pick power up. This helps when crossing dead spots on the track which again is to the benefit of DCC (and analogue pick up too of course).

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

To be honest OZ the typical railway modeller in the UK won't have a clue what all this stuff about wheelgauging is about. I don't!

I like to open a box, stick an item on the track, and watch it go. I prefer to use track that permits this and if that means I use track that offends pure scale modellers then tough. I do run new and old models and find Hornby track copes well with nearly all rolling stock produced over the 50 years that Hornby have been producing trains (I won't say models as we live in a PC world!

)

Hornby and Bachmann know their typical customers and I suspect a very high number think like me and like things to be very simple.

What this has to do with poor running I don't know but if Hornby and Bachmann, by pandering to the whims of those that demand perfection and finescale, are starting to produce locomotives that run poorly and won't pull the skin off a rice pudding and won't go up gradients, then is this progress?

A 1967 Triang Hornby Hymec with Magnadhesion on steel track could pull 11 coaches according to press reviews of that year. On nickel silver track it struggles to pull 5 coaches! It can only pull 2 Hornby Dublo tinplate coaches on nickel silver track. As for any steep incline on nickel silver track forget it.

A Hornby Dublo diecast loco can easily pull 6 tinplate coaches without magnadhesion.

It seems that locomotives now have to be heavy to pull any weight.

The truth is you simply cannot put heavy weight into a steam locomotive. Diesels yes you can and tenders yes you can and possibly this is why tender drive became fashionable.

I wonder how many of todays UK steam train modellers actaully haul more then 4-5 coaches? Even todays high detail locos can cope with that. If 95% of modellers who buy Hornby and Bachmann models haul 5 coaches or less then they are going to be very satisfied with running performance.

The other thing is of course is that you cannot compare UK outline OO with the rest of the worlds HO. UK steam tenders are generally much smaller due to shorter distances travelled so less space for weight in there even with tender drive. USA HO steam locos are much bigger even in HO scale so can be heavier. There is plenty of double and triple heading in the USA and elsewhere in the world so modellers can model this and pull long consists. If UK outine locos tend to be lighter then this is the very nature of the animal as they are smaller.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

All good points OZ. My old copies of model railway magazines are full of detailing and scratchbuilding projects and little else. It is a bit different these days. And Russell also seems reasonably accurate with his assessment of current hauling power. Its not that the motor can't cope. Its that the wheels slip.

It has occured to me that you could get small lead pellets that can be glued in place and this seems like the ideal solution for adding weight. They used to be advertised in Model Rail at about £18 for a jar full. I may be wrong however I don't recall seeing them advertised recently. For steam locomotives this appears to be a reasonable solution for getting weight into any available void of any shape. However, these days with the need to keep voids clear for DCC bits and bobs and the more accurate boiler and model shapes there are few voids actually free in anything other than streamlined locomotives.

We now have finer scale flanges on loco bogies that are definitely more lightweight than 20 years ago. Again, with manufacturers pandering to the whims of the few who demand detail in these areas, we are suffering with bogies that derail. With the introduction of dampening spring type designs on current models I do occasionally find that the natural bogie height at rest is sometimes set too high relative to the main drive wheels and this is something that can be adjusted.

Remember that there are still model railway exhibits around the UK. One in Poole, one on the Isle of White and one in Exmouth that I have visited. They are all massive claiming to hold world records for length or for something else. And they have locomotives running non stop throughout the day that don't derail. What are they doing right?

What I do notice at all of them is that they run older locomotives! Why I don't know. But they do.

The other thing is that they have few points and they normally make sure that any loco is running against the point rather than into it.

Now for those who have tail chasing oval layouts who like to run there trains continuously for hours on end then good layout design is very important. Always run against the point if you operate continiously and you probably won't go far wrong with any loco. Keep shunting areas away from the main running area. Avoid diamond crossings and uncoupling ramps on main lines. And so on.

Common sense really.

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[Gary]

QUOTE While magnataction solved a problem, it was an abomination - a sledge hammer to crack a nut. It created problems of its own, with serious friction effects that put a massive strain on motors and rendered low speed running virtually impossible. That's the real reason why it is dead and buried, not nickel silver rails! Is Hornby track nickel silver these days?

Hornby still use magnatraction on Scalextric slot car so it is untrue to say it is dead and buried.

The only reason it is not used on locomotives is that Hornby adopted the use of nickel silver track in the 1970's. Nickel silver is not magnetic.

Any weight, whether real or virtual as induced by well positioned magnets, puts a strain on motors. Low speed running is absolutely possible with magnatraction. I would agree it is not possible to induce the less than snail like slow speed running that the current Hornby range enjoy, however for the average model railway operator at the time (and even now?) it was/would be very acceptable.

Magnatraction on Hornby locomotives had an 18 year life. Would this be the case if it was such a bad thing as implied?

Magnatraction provided a number of advantages. It freed up void space within the interior of the model for accessories such as synchrosmoke and lights and it gave the modeller the flexibility to add his own weight around any accessories fitted. Given that we are moving into a DCC world with locomotive sound, smoke, lights and even more wouldn't it be nice to have the sort of void space in small tank locomotives that former magnatraction fitted locomotives enjoyed?

Yes, this can all be done by miniturisation, however small things are expensive and big things less so.

Do Lionel still use magnets for tractive purposes?

Happy modelling
Gary