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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the last month I've noticed several well known online dealers repricing their old stock to new levels far in excess of the actual euro/£ price conversion. Do they actually believe that if something sat on their shelf for the last two years or so and didn't move that by increasing its price by 33% or so that it will suddenly fly off the shelf especially in todays economic conditions. I for one as a matter of principle would never buy old stock at a new silly level, its pure daylight robbery.
 

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Supply and demand, once something becomes harder to get it is worth more!

Rob
 

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well Simon, if the retailers do not make a profit they simply wont be there. Is this result you want ?

As far as pricing goes its up to the retailer to guess what price to put on an item. If he sells a slow moving item at a very big discount do you consider that as daylight robbery of the retailer ? Because there will probably many items in an inventory which will have to be quit at any price to keep stock and cashflow moving. You may see an item previously heavily discounted move out of that category if the retailer decides there is after all a demand for that item and hence the rpice goes up.

As far as 'knowing" the retailer is making excessive profit on an item due to exchange rates do you rush up to him and offer to pay extra when the exchange rates have moved against him and he is wearing it because that is "fair"?

Anyway a few points to consider. If your retailer rocks up at your local train show in a new Porsche and a thick fur coat and is hung with large chunks of precious metals then you might be right in your supposition he is a rip off artist. More likely his main business wont be in retailing hobby items.
Andrew
 

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Are some UK model shops trying to go bankrupt?, via stupid overpricing of old stock.............

As we help our freind run his shop -- We hope so , i cuts down the competition!!

Saying that we are far cheaper than anyone else in the area by about 20%. Dinwiddy, who owns the shop has the highest level of customer care
and really looks after everyone who comes through the door. We all try and help out as much as possible and if we have had a locomotive sitting on a shelf for ages it tends to get sold at cost price, ( we have three or four left at the moment ). Quite a few items have dropped in price rather than gone up recently due to the VAT decrease........ So i dont understand why big shops are putting there prices up.................

Nikki
 

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***They buy it up front - if its an import rather than from a local wholesale, its paid for before it leaves the sellers hands. Smaller retailers are less likely to have positive pament terms than larger stores.

Costs are high everywhere for retailers, especcially in the UK, so don't be too hard on them - particularly the smaller shops, who probably pay up to 30% more than the big box movers for the same stock, when the box movers volume / plus short and log term incentive discounts and advertising subsidies are taken into account.

The only ones who have low costs are online retailers... who do not also have a retail store.... they can afford to discount as they have almost no overheads.

regards

Richard
 

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Sounds like a bit of a nightmare.
A relative of mine ran a small music shop - he could not stock Yamaha keyboards because he could not order / sell sufficient to meet their minimum.

Presumably, though, there is old stock sitting around at wholesalers / manufacturers as well as some of the stuff at Hattons 'new in this month' looks like pretty old stock - I've noticed that they sometimes have different prices for the same item as they 'paid less for the cheaper ones'.

It must be nice to own a shop-full of this gear - provided you don't go broke!
 

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On the one hand I want local model shops to survive - we all need them to supply the little odds and ends. Perversly they will only survive if we are prepared to pay something more for the bigger stuff like locomotives and control systems.

If the mathematics was simple (such as purchase price plus postage and package compared to minimum cost plus petrol) then the choice would be simple, and there would be a balance allowing Liverpool retailers and Fred's model shop survive side by side.

The mighty dollar (I hesitate to mention pounds in their current condition) seems to prevail endangering the small model shop to the prediction of extinction. Yes, some of them approach sales costing using logic which ignores price comparrisons; but others recognise that we consumers are also short of liquidity. Again a balance needs to become a reality.

Let the immature retailer go to the wall and the more reasonable (small) model shops prosper.

Another dimension - if you think that things are difficult in the UK let alone Europe, just think of the third world market where currency exchange rates are worse.

Here in sunny South Africa I have found a model shop that will price receipts in accordance with the generally discounted rates that apply with the current foreign exchange rate prevailing at the time of their payment to the supplier; and will not reprice them whilst on the shelf. For those that know the system, we search for the 'old' stock and can purchase an old item for up to two thirds of a new renumbered equivilent.

With some negotiation, discounts on marked prices are also a possibility for the regular customers.

The big retailers depend upon the locals to create the market that they then plunder. If they destroy the local shops they will kill their own business as the old wrinkleys die out and youngsters forget the magic our great hobby can provide.

Commercial pressures should keep the balance but greed will destroy the hobby - unless we all go back to scratch and kit bashing options - bring back Mr Freezer please !
 

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I buy quite a bit offline from my local model shop (a local shop for local people).I do pay more though often as I am passing anyway and there is no post cost on an online purchase ,its not a huge difference often .Sometimes it s.They do a layway scheme which is useful for buying a new but in short supply loco and saves me using an expensive credit card .My income is erratic and I find it useful .Once these shops go ,nothing replaces them and that happy experience of just looking round a model train shop and dreaming and later possibly buying ,will be gone forever .
A lot of the finescale stuff that few sell ,I just wait until I go to an exhibition .I do like to know just what I am buying and many smaller sites are just useless as there are no adequate illustration of the article.Digital photography is not rocket science .Kits should be shown before building ,not as a finished example done by some genius and with goodness knows what modification . Many kits are rubbish that needs a lot of work to make good .I can do this sort of work but many cannot and at one time I couldnt .The customer deserves better.
 

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Several points in response to your comments.

By "overpricing" I mean exactly that. A couple of shops seems to think that they can charge a higher price than the competition and get away with it. It seems with all the fuss of the £:euro exchange rate that some shops have increased their prices on "continental" stock way above the actual exchange rate fluctuation. As an example, a certain Trix wagon is £32.50 at a well known online store, the same wagon can be bought off modelbahnkramm for an equvalent of 26.50. The Trix Rheingold set, price on ebay.de or modelbahn kramm, 240 euro ( £216), price at same well known UK online dealer ----> £295. Who do they think they are kidding?

I have nothing against shops making profit, or owning a Porsche for that matter. My point is, with people tightening their purse strings are they going to pay over inflated prices ? In addition these high prices scare people off coming into the hobby which isn't good for the long term future of all involved.

Now lets imagine that existing modellers still spend the same amount but buy less stock, the shop may actually make more profit however the manufacturer will sell less and may eventually go out of business.

Just to add, I'm not referring to Hattons.
 

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Simonj

I agree, that is unfortunately the other side of it.

Looking around the Internet at prices I've often been surprised at how high some of them are - EBay seems particularly full of pitfalls. The same item as stocked and sold by 'normal' suppliers is often on E-Bay at a higher price. It seems that some retailers have cottoned on to the idea that people assume on-line shops with no overheads will charge less and are relying on people not shopping around.

On the other hand I do have sympathy with local suppliers who keep things in stock / provide a service for their customers and occasionally get caught with old stock that they have difficulty selling at a reasonable ptice.

In my opinion it is advisable to tread warily on the internet - and never to assume that the best prices are on E-Bay, for example. I remember that while the main dealers were busy off-loading the blue Duchess from the Hornby Royal Train Pack (I think it was) at knock-down prices the same locos were going for over £10 more on E-Bay with all the appearance of being 'bargains' - people were apparently bidding quite a bit higher than they would pay elsewhere, and I've seen a number of Bachmann sets going at inflated prices. Unless there is something special that nobody else can supply EBay, EBay shops and box-shifters with no 'real shop' are a non-starter as far as I am concerned.

If I could, I would buy locally - the few pounds extra (if they exist, that is) are worth it for peace of mind and to ensure that local shops remain available. Besides, it's more enjoyable too. And no, I'm not exactly rich!
 

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if a ''local'' dealer..ie one that the OP frequents regularly, is selling at what is considered an 'inflated '' price, perhaps an attempt at 'bargaining''..or making a reduced offer, might be in order?

ie..expressing a keen interest in an item....but being quite clear that one cannot afford ''that price''....and asking how much the shop keeper is prepared to drop his price for you to afford the item, etc etc.....

for a regular customer, a negotiated price is sometimes forthcoming?
 

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it's sometimes worth pointing out that the price is higher than so-and-so other retailer - but politely, of course, if the difference is really not acceptable.

When I bought my guitar amp some years ago, the price at the 'big guys' was £489, but the local shop wanted £589.
I explained that I'd prefer to buy locally, but the price difference was too great. I expected him to knock £50 or so off, as the extra would have been reasonable considering the travel or mail inconveniences, cost, time etc. but after he'd checked the prices on the internet he sold it to me for £489 - the lowest price advertised elsewhere.

Like many owners of 'hobby' shops, he was an enthusiast who spent his time indulging in the 'hobby', not checking prices on the internet. He'd no intention of 'doing' anybody, just put the prices on that had been suggested and got on with playing the guitar. I left him studying prices on the internet - he looked more interested than dismayed.

Human nature being what it is I have never complained to any shop-keeper for under-charging.
 

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QUOTE (alastairq @ 7 Mar 2009, 10:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>if a ''local'' dealer..ie one that the OP frequents regularly, is selling at what is considered an 'inflated '' price, perhaps an attempt at 'bargaining''..or making a reduced offer, might be in order?

ie..expressing a keen interest in an item....but being quite clear that one cannot afford ''that price''....and asking how much the shop keeper is prepared to drop his price for you to afford the item, etc etc.....

for a regular customer, a negotiated price is sometimes forthcoming?

It truly is. Can't forget the first time we did shopping in a Nurnberg model rail shop. I bought about 500 euros worth of train related items. At the counter, its in the blood, I said; ok now whats the discount you are going to give us? The gentleman went back and returned with a Roco Taiga Trommel diesel and handed over and said; here is your discount. Was worth 98 euros at that time.

Baykal
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QUOTE (alastairq @ 7 Mar 2009, 10:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>if a ''local'' dealer..ie one that the OP frequents regularly, is selling at what is considered an 'inflated '' price, perhaps an attempt at 'bargaining''..or making a reduced offer, might be in order?

ie..expressing a keen interest in an item....but being quite clear that one cannot afford ''that price''....and asking how much the shop keeper is prepared to drop his price for you to afford the item, etc etc.....

for a regular customer, a negotiated price is sometimes forthcoming?

Just to point out its not my "local" dealer, its two shops that have extensive listings online.

As for peoples comments on ebay, I was referring to the buy it now type shops rather than the auctions where things can go to silly prices. The worst case I've seen was a single wagon from the Trix HO Maxhutte set (5 wagons) which sold for around £80 (the whole set is only £110 or so).
 

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Simonj
well, yes, I had intended to cover the 'buy it now' prices - but my post, when re-read, was a bit poor. The 'buy it now prices' were higher than those advertised by the 'normal' big sellers. The 'buy it now' prices were something like £69.99 ( less than £70
), whereas the prices at Hattons et al were in the £50s. So yes, I agree - also beware of the 'buy it now' 'bargain' prices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
QUOTE (PeterPug @ 7 Mar 2009, 23:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Simonj
well, yes, I had intended to cover the 'buy it now' prices - but my post, when re-read, was a bit poor. The 'buy it now prices' were higher than those advertised by the 'normal' big sellers. The 'buy it now' prices were something like £69.99 ( less than £70
), whereas the prices at Hattons et al were in the £50s. So yes, I agree - also beware of the 'buy it now' 'bargain' prices.

Hattons have funny pricing, when they have a few units they sell it cheaper as a BARGAIN, then when only one is left the price goes up considerably.
 

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hello everyone - from tokyo! ... just got here and altho been on a 12hr flight, i cant sleep, so im reading your posts! ... off to shinjuku mainline station tmrw to take pics of the shinkansen (bullets!).

i always have a look online and at ebay, then go to the local model shop in downtown glasgow (D&F models) - they are lovely folks who run it - and because im a regular customer, i always get a good price - it might not be QUITE as cheap as the cheapest price on the net, but theres no postage, i get to see the model out the box, i get to see it run on a test track, talk about it, usually other customers in the shop also like to discuss/offer advice etc ... the whole "experience" is nice - to me its not just about the price but the whole process of selecting a model, spending time in the shop, chatting and going home with your new model. - surely thats worth more than saving a few pounds?.

as someone else said, can you imagine these small hobby shops eventually going out of business ... it would take a lot of the pleasure of shopping for something for your model away. so ill keep supporting my local model shop and to me its worth paying that little extra (probably the postage cost for an online purchase) to enjoy my model buying experience.
 

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QUOTE (db ice 3 @ 8 Mar 2009, 02:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i always have a look online and at ebay, then go to the local model shop in downtown glasgow (D&F models) - they are lovely folks who run it - and because im a regular customer, i always get a good price - it might not be QUITE as cheap as the cheapest price on the net, but theres no postage, i get to see the model out the box, i get to see it run on a test track, talk about it, usually other customers in the shop also like to discuss/offer advice etc ... the whole "experience" is nice - to me its not just about the price but the whole process of selecting a model, spending time in the shop, chatting and going home with your new model. - surely thats worth more than saving a few pounds?.

. so ill keep supporting my local model shop and to me its worth paying that little extra (probably the postage cost for an online purchase) to enjoy my model buying experience.

Hello,
I'm with DB on this one, I find the whole experience of going to a local model shop far better than buying online, plus if something doesn't work you can easily take it back. My local model shop is more expensive than some online, but he gives me reductions for second hand purchases, considerably less than the same things found on e-bay, and he runs a "carte de fidelité" giving an extra discount for every 10 things bought. I'd be pretty much stuck without this local shop so I give him my custom.

Glad to here D&F Models is still going. I left Glasgow 10 years ago, but always enjoyed going in there. I'm moving back to Glasgow in June and with the demise of McKay's Models and Mac's Model railroading, I'm very pleased to here there is still one good model shop in Glasgow!

regards

Clive
 

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hi clive,

lovely to hear your moving back to glasgow, D & F sadly dont sell unbrellas for the non-stop rain - so make u sure you buy one and bring it with you ... but they sell or can get just about anything else!. good luck with your move back!.
the lady with the croaky voice, (cant remember her name - but she's been there for years is still there and her husband that she bosses around - its all quite funny and comical - worth a visit just to watch them argue over who ordered what and whys that not there etc lol)

i think its important just like u say to support these shops, theyre kinda few and far between these days - so ill certainly do my bit to help them along as they have done me over the years.
 
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