[pedromorgan]

Just out of curiosity, which australian loco's do you think would be a suitable subject for a new kit? if its broad gauge it would have 16.5mm and 18mm frame spacers. if its narrow gauge it would have 12mm spacers.

loco's with lots of castings are a no-go and box pop wheels are virtually impossible to source.

I have wanted to do some colonial stuff for some time and i have an idea about doing a C30T or a C32 but knowing next to nothing about australian railways i would love to hear your opinions.

I have been going through the industry magazines fron the first half of this century and i am amazed at the number of drawings i have come across and completly stunned at their quality. (if i was a manufacturer i would not be publishing almost complete blueprints of my latest loco!! but they wanted the export orders so it was a way of getting a free advert.)

Peter

 

[Richard Johnson]

***Many are already covered either by ex DJH, Brass or as kits.... and most of the volume sellers are alreay in the process of becoming RTR plastic ex asia.

If you are wanting a popular subject than one of the "puffing Billy" loco's might be a winner though. (HO narrow gauge). There's a nice wee Garratt among them....

The C32 is just released as a RTR ex China.... so probably not.

What WOULD get the blood racing for many and sell well is a set of the GHAN or any other cross-australia standard gauge coaches - the locos are available but the only coaches are the B awful Lima models!

Each train has LOTS of coaches so multiple orders would be common....

Now back to that loco - how about a Kirtley

Most of the castings would be not too hard to source - and the external springs made up as real leaf springs from etchings would be a nice touch!

Richard

 

[neil_s_wood]

Footplate models produce some Australian loco kits.

Ozzie 21 Charles Emerson is the man to speak to about these. Hopefully he'll notice this thread and reply.

 

[Ozzie21]

Pedro, If I were starting on a NSW loco for the first time then it would be a 36class. These were 4-6-0's and came in two versions with a round top firebox or in rebuilt form with a Belpaire firebox. The 30class can be a tricky little model but i know that a person with modelling skills would have minimal difficulties. All the picture bar one are Footplate Model Kits custom made for Footplate by DJH but unfotunately only available from Footplate. here's the web address for the only supplier of Footplate Models http://www.arkits.com/

This a Round top C36class. Kind of reminds me of a B1.

C30class tank. This is Classic Brass model about 30yrs old.

This is a C30T. lovely little loco made from scrapped 30class tanks. Used on many brachlines.

this is a C32class. One of these hauled the last steam passenger train in NSW in 1970, Singleton to Newcastle.

This is a Z20class suburban tank. Forerunner of the 30class. Most were gone by the early sixties.

another pic of the C30T.

This a D55lclass with southern valve gear. This little 2-8-0's were found everywhere hauling every frieght you cold think of but mainly coal.

This is D50 class 2-8-0. These again were the mainstay of the NSW frieght fleet. They came in saturated or superheated versions. The middle pair of driving wheels were blind.

D57 class heavy mountain. These 4-8-2's were built to haul frieghtr on the lines south of Sydney and over the Blue mountains from Lithgow. These were 3cly machines with Gresely conjugated valve gear mounted on the front footplate. Mine worked.

These are non air, no brakes, hoppers. They were used for coal hauling in the Hunter Valley coalfields, my home area. They ran on wooden frames and the hopper was lifted from the frame by crane for dumping into the holds of ships.

A typical brake van for the coal fields trains.

Well i hope this will whet your appetite. Unfortunately I have just sold nearly all of these models but I still have plenty of books so if you would like a book list i can compile one after xmas as my aussie books are all down south.

Regards
Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 14 Dec 2008, 23:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Just out of curiosity, which australian loco's do you think would be a suitable subject for a new kit? if its broad gauge it would have 16.5mm and 18mm frame spacers. if its narrow gauge it would have 12mm spacers.

loco's with lots of castings are a no-go and box pop wheels are virtually impossible to source.

I have wanted to do some colonial stuff for some time and i have an idea about doing a C30T or a C32 but knowing next to nothing about australian railways i would love to hear your opinions.

I have been going through the industry magazines fron the first half of this century and i am amazed at the number of drawings i have come across and completly stunned at their quality. (if i was a manufacturer i would not be publishing almost complete blueprints of my latest loco!! but they wanted the export orders so it was a way of getting a free advert.)

Peter

 

[pedromorgan]

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 14 Dec 2008, 15:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>***Many are already covered either by ex DJH, Brass or as kits.... and most of the volume sellers are alreay in the process of becoming RTR plastic ex asia.

If you are wanting a popular subject than one of the "puffing Billy" loco's might be a winner though. (HO narrow gauge). There's a nice wee Garratt among them....

The C32 is just released as a RTR ex China.... so probably not.

What WOULD get the blood racing for many and sell well is a set of the GHAN or any other cross-australia standard gauge coaches - the locos are available but the only coaches are the B awful Lima models!

Each train has LOTS of coaches so multiple orders would be common....

Now back to that loco - how about a Kirtley

Most of the castings would be not too hard to source - and the external springs made up as real leaf springs from etchings would be a nice touch!

Richard

Hello Richard

One of the motives for my thinking was that i quite fancy a couple of auzzie loco's for myself and i cant afford the RTR stuff. i totally understand that they are fairly limited runs and that pushes the price up but that inturn pushes it beyond my reach. in the current economic situation me manufacturing them in the UK might make them relativly cheap to the rest fo the world.

I am going to be very honest here - i am a rubbish pattern maker- there i have said it. i feel somehow cleansed. so a loco that requires VERY simple castings would be a huge advantage.

If you source the drawings i would be happy to do the Ghan coaches. if you can source bogie sideframes then i suspect they would be a piece of cake from my point of view.

Re-kirtly! hmm. the thing is i know it would be a little stunner. but i am not sure i can do it justice. and someone would complain it was wrong. now for an auzzie kit i probably wouldnt give a damn about that. but when they can corner me down the club and beat me up behind the bycycle sheds at scaleforum its another matter!

QUOTE (Ozzie21 @ 14 Dec 2008, 22:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Pedro, If I were starting on a NSW loco for the first time then it would be a 36class. These were 4-6-0's and came in two versions with a round top firebox or in rebuilt form with a Belpaire firebox. The 30class can be a tricky little model but i know that a person with modelling skills would have minimal difficulties. All the picture bar one are Footplate Model Kits custom made for Footplate by DJH but unfotunately only available from Footplate. here's the web address for the only supplier of Footplate Models http://www.arkits.com/

Ozzie thankyou very much for your reply. it dosent have to be an NSW loco. as long as its pretty i am not very fussy. if it was one of the loco's made by a brittish manufacturer than drawings might be easier for me. This would only be my 4th loco kit and at the moment i dont feel my loco design skills are suffeciently advanced to do a taper boiler. as soon as i can do a taper firebox there are a couple of loco's i wold love to do but for now they have to wait (a CZECH 475 being the biggie!).

I like the footplate/DJH kits but as with most of the DJH continental kits they are rather expensive for me and i am getting better at drawing etches! i am rather taken with your C30T. what is the cover over the slidebars?

Peter

P.S. your D57 - WOW!

 

[john woodall]

Or for something Completly different 9mm NZR (1:32ish on O gauge track)

http://nzamrc.org.nz/2006.htm

 

[Ravenser]

Some rather impressive shots from Ozzie21 there....

It seems the field has had a fair bit of coverage , though the suburban tanks tend to take a back seat.

Someone has announced a RTR 19 class, but as a bit of a left field choice - 18 class 0-6-0T ? Small , therefore cheap and I don't think anyone's ever done one. Small class maybe but one survives at the museum at Thirlmere so they must have survived close to the end of steam (Interest to declare - there was apparently a very short lived car float operation in Sydney Harbour when a freight terminal was built at Lavender Bay and they couldn't get permission for the necessary connection off the N.Shore line . I suspect almost nothing is known about it , which is a great modellers get out...)

 

[pedromorgan]

after a lecture i was at last week i had serious thoughts about doing a NZR loco on 12mm track. but there is an awfull lot of plumbing! South african was also a possibility (but not a garratt).

Peter

 

[Richard Johnson]

*** Hi Peter

You said: "If you source the drawings i would be happy to do the Ghan coaches. if you can source bogie sideframes then i suspect they would be a piece of cake from my point of view"

Sorry mate - I have no access to the drawings and to be honest they aren't of much interest to me as an item... I merely suggested that if you wanted a project with an excellent chance of commerical success, then they would be an ideal project as the trains have run for years (so there's a spread of modelling periods) and now they are at a new high point in use and publicity.... and each train needs lots of coaches of not many different diagrammes.

I will of course see what I can do for you but can't promise. Fingers crossed!

The Bogies are probably going to be a piece of cake - US Passenger bogies would probably do the job (I think... only think.... that they use a relatively standard commonwealth bogie... and thats available with good detail RTR already in HO. I will check!)

Richard

 

[Ozzie21]

Peter, The reality out here for steam models is that they are quite cheap when all things are considered. With a British model you have one scale with 3 guages! so you have to source your own wheels, motor and gearbox. With our models you have one scale with one gauge. With a Footplate kit it comes supplied with wheels, motor and gearbox. Wheels are usually Romford/Markits in RP25 profile, motor/gearbox is usually a Northwest Shortline gearbox with Mashima motor. Boilers are usually whitemetal and everything else is an etching with post wax brass castings. Assembly follows standard DJH style assembly you know slot and tab style. In short everything is supplied with the kit except paint and cab side numbers. A far cry from a british model.

The covers on the C30T were there to protect the slidebars and piston rods from the raveges of errant fauna, Kangaroos can do a bit damage at speed.

Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (pedromorgan @ 15 Dec 2008, 09:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Ozzie thankyou very much for your reply. it dosent have to be an NSW loco. as long as its pretty i am not very fussy. if it was one of the loco's made by a brittish manufacturer than drawings might be easier for me. This would only be my 4th loco kit and at the moment i dont feel my loco design skills are suffeciently advanced to do a taper boiler. as soon as i can do a taper firebox there are a couple of loco's i wold love to do but for now they have to wait (a CZECH 475 being the biggie!).

I like the footplate/DJH kits but as with most of the DJH continental kits they are rather expensive for me and i am getting better at drawing etches! i am rather taken with your C30T. what is the cover over the slidebars?

Peter

P.S. your D57 - WOW!

 

[Ravenser]

Thanks for the link to the AR Kits site. Several ranges of rolling stock kits I wasn't aware of

 

[6991]

Hi,
If you want a loco made by a British locomotive works, yet is typical Aussie, why not look at the hundreds of locos exported for the coal indistry?
Just 400m or so from my house is a little coal tank made by Hudswell Clarke in the late 1800's for bringing coal the short distance to the staithes.

In the Newcastle area the distance to the staithes was much greater so huge networks of private lines performed the task on standard gauge systems with British built locos. While it is well known that J.M.Brown purchase and ran (until the 1970s) several ex-ROD 2-8-0 tender locos they also used another Gorton built loco which is one of my favourites, it's a chunky looking 2-8-2T and is probably still running at Richmond Vale preserved railway. There were many of these engines. I'm no Australian Railway historian, but there's plenty of information around on these locos.

6991

 

[Ravenser]

QUOTE While it is well known that J.M.Brown purchase and ran (until the 1970s) several ex-ROD 2-8-0 tender locos they also used another Gorton built loco which is one of my favourites, it's a chunky looking 2-8-2T and is probably still running at Richmond Vale preserved railway. There were many of these engines. I'm no Australian Railway historian, but there's plenty of information around on these locos

South Maitland Railway 10-class ? Tank versions of the NSWGR Beyer Peacock built D50 2-8-0 , which were still operating in some numbers into the mid 80s (the SMR tanks not the mainline locos).

 

[6991]

Yep, I reckon they're the ones Ravenser - must be pictures somewhere.
6991

 

[Ozzie21]

Yes it's SMR 10 class, built by Beyer Peacock. I think 18nwere imported and all survive. I was a member of Richmond Vale Preservation Group for a few years and we had two 10 class running. Prior to that when they were still in service on the SMR I used to see them running on the dual track main between East Greta exchange sidings and Pelton Colliery near Bellbird. Best spot was down the line near Neath watching a double header pounding up Caladonia Bank. I'm not to sure if any are still running at Ritchie as I haven't been there in 10yrs. A model used to be available under the LMR banner but having looked their I see it's no longer listed. A pity as it was an excellent model. I do have few pictures of the 10 class that I'll post when time permits.

Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (6991 @ 17 Dec 2008, 19:56) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yep, I reckon they're the ones Ravenser - must be pictures somewhere.
6991

 

[Ravenser]

I remember in the 80s the ABC used to have a continuity/filler film clip of a 10 class plodding past a trackworker with a very large beergut slowly drilling a hole in a sleeper with a big handbrace

 

[Ozzie21]

Well that wasn't me as I was abit trimer back then. I have done plenty of track laying from Ritchie out the highway where we had to stop, then from Ritchie out to Pelaw Main about 2.5miles. It was fun drilling and spikeing all those sleepers. It is a shame that the plans we had in the eighties came to naught, relaying the track across the highway to the brickworks and from there to Sugarloaf and then on to Hexam, or there was the connection from Pelaw Main to Sugarloaf, then there was the old link to the SMR at Weston. All these plans came to naught for one reason or another. I became somewhat dissallusioned with it all then I suffered a serious injury while at work and was unable to pay my dues so I never got the urge to go back.

Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 18 Dec 2008, 20:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I remember in the 80s the ABC used to have a continuity/filler film clip of a 10 class plodding past a trackworker with a very large beergut slowly drilling a hole in a sleeper with a big handbrace

 

[6991]

Hi Lads (Ozzie and Ravenser)
Glad my suggestion brought some memories out! Great engines. 10y ago one was stored/housed at Port Kembla yard and fired up every Friday for the Cockatoo Run. I will go over to Richmond Vale in mid-January while we are on a family holiday at Port Stephens, I last went to RV back in 2005 and they were running Sunday trips to Pelaw Main (?) and back - was very nice. Only the frames of a ROD were visible and they had the boiler off somewhere for doing something. Anyway, when I go, I'll take a few piccies and update you on how it's looking and see how the 10s are going.
6991

 

[Ozzie21]

I always felt like they restored the wrong locos back then. As RichmondVale was J.A.Brown colliery that the 10 class didn't really run on till much later in the life of the railway then the Kitsons or the ROD's would have been the better choice as they were a J.A.Brown loco. I suppose it was easier as the 10class was still a runner when I joined. I think from memory there's one 10 class down south, Port Kembla I think. There's one on a plinth at the entrance to Port Waratah Coal services.. There was 3 or 4 at Ritchie, two were running and one had it's boiler removed and one was just a chassis and side tanks. There's 2 or 3 at East Greta and the rest are at Rothbury and one I think at Dorrigo. I'm not sure if the ROD at Ritchie is the one that came from Hexham or the old miners memorial at Freemans Waterhole.
If you do get up to Port Stephens then go for a vist to Rothbury as he has the reguaged VR Hudson there. Not sure what state it is in but I believe it was steamed in Victoria after conversion.

Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (6991 @ 19 Dec 2008, 04:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Lads (Ozzie and Ravenser)
Glad my suggestion brought some memories out! Great engines. 10y ago one was stored/housed at Port Kembla yard and fired up every Friday for the Cockatoo Run. I will go over to Richmond Vale in mid-January while we are on a family holiday at Port Stephens, I last went to RV back in 2005 and they were running Sunday trips to Pelaw Main (?) and back - was very nice. Only the frames of a ROD were visible and they had the boiler off somewhere for doing something. Anyway, when I go, I'll take a few piccies and update you on how it's looking and see how the 10s are going.
6991