[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE although Bachmann hasnt to the extreme lengths of recent Hornby models with fully painted gauges and controls

Never thought I'd see the day someone complained about detail improvement.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE Yet, at the opposite nit-picking extreme, I sometimes wonder if there is any point whatever in in trying to reproduce tiny dials etc, inside a driving cab, which will only ever get looked at once, if ever!

I have wondered about that too. The class 31 I bought is supposed to have a detailed cab and I have never seen it. If it was lit maybe then you could see in but as it is I would have to get a torch and a magnifying glass. I did wonder about the relevance of the opening doors too as they spring closed and you wouldn't be able to see in anyway as your finger is in the way holding the door open.

QUOTE Perhaps Hornby and Bachmann could produce a " Premier" line of models with higher than average detail. Of course the price would reflect that extra detail but I wouldn't mind paying for it.

I reckon the two tiered approach is the go like Roco have done with their playtime series for kids. This is interesting that people here are saying they would like this as this very idea was put down by several individuals on another thread. It was suggested that there was no gap in the market for prestige UK outline, which I reckon there definitely is. I would certainly buy it. I've been waiting on this happening for some time now.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE I don't wish to open a can of worms but I often wonder how different things would be if you all had gone for HO scale rather than OO. You might already have that premier line courtesy of Marklin, Trix et al.

Historically Trix did once make British outline.

You can still find it for sale second hand on Ebay.

Here is a Trix Mallard

Why they stopped I don't know but maybe if they continued maybe we would not have had such low quality British outline up until the last couple of years.

The lack of competition caused stagnation in the British market which has only really improved recently. I can see items in the Hornby range now that they were selling thirty years ago. Can you imagine getting away with selling thirty year old product in the USA or Germany?

I don't think so.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE neil - you cant criticise them for using their back catalouge to make money. the old moulds are updated modified to bring them up to near todays standards. they have modern wheels and couplings often NEM pockets.

What I am saying, Peter, is that Hornby had a virtual monopoly on model rail in the UK until relatively recently and as such had no motivation to modernise or modify. It is only with the arival of Bachmann and competition that they improved the quality of their product. Now if there were still continental competitors in the UK such as Trix ( which is the pre Marklin Trix) it would increase the competition and raise the standard of the product even further.
I can appreciate why they are still knocking out antique products, it's because there is no real choice for many locos. So they can get away with it. People have no option but to buy it as their is no choice. Now if Bachmann announced they were to make a super detail digital sound Blue Pullman or HST, what would Hornby do, compete and offer a similar product or not bother?

So really the more competition the better. As the companies compete they have to offer better value for money or something that the other companies don't offer to gain the advantage. Which is why a premier line would be a good thing, to capture that gap in the British market for people who don't want thirty year old toy quality product and would like something a bit better in quality and extra options. Maybe you might be right in that not that many people would buy it but I can see from this thread that I am not the only person who would buy it.

You don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

I don't really understand why you are so against it?

QUOTE I don't wish to open a can of worms

Deja vu Dennis

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 17 Jun 2006, 12:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't wish to open a can of worms but I often wonder how different things would be if you all had gone for HO scale rather than OO. You might already have that premier line courtesy of Marklin, Trix et al.

I forgot to mention that the old Trix stuff was in fact 00. Why they stopped making it I don't know but it's a bit of a loss.

QUOTE i totally agree that competition is a good thing. it increases quality and keeps prices in check. but it dosent have to get elitest.

I wouldn't neccessarily describe higher quality as elitist. Marklin Trix Fleischmann are higher quality and cost around 300 euros for a sound equipped loco. This is an upper middle quality. Micro Metakit make models which are 2000 euros and are top end, I would describe that as elitist. I think that as the German market is bigger it can afford more tiers of product whereas in the UK, which only has one tier of product, some people see Marklin Trix et al as top end price wise which in global terms they certainly aren't.

I actually beleive that the German producers, Trix etc, offer value for money in terms of what you get for your money. Which is why I continue to buy their product.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE simple. i am against it because it would take huge resources away from models that i can afford and would buy. i would prefer for developement money to be spent on models for the masses rather than an elite few.

One thing I did think about this is that the development of new technology and features would filter down to the cheaper models. If you take BMW say, they put all their development into the top of the range motors, the following year the technology appears on the cheaper models as it becomes standard. This could possibly happen with model trains. So it may not neccessarily deprive you of the models that you could afford. It may actually improve them.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE I accept that 00 is out of scale. You simply won't get modellers to change and that includes me. Yes it's not right but acceptable (to me) and thats what counts

At the end of the day you have to get a balance between accuracy and ability to operate efficiently. This is the reason we have OO British outline and the HO continental coaches are 1/100 rather than 1/87. If it doesn't run well then it's no fun. Which is what puts me off expanding into American HO in a big way. American NRMA insists on RP25 wheels which may be more accurate scale wise but you probably spend more time putting your rolling stock back on the tracks than you actually do running it. I guess you just have to do whatever works.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE I don't think you'll see any problem using Code 83 track which is still the most popular.

Only in the USA. In Europe it's code 100.

 

[neil_s_wood]

I think there must be. The bulk of my derailments are American outline with RP25 wheels.

Also in the Trix catalogue they offered two versions of the Big Boy one with RP 25 wheels for the American two rail system and one with European style wheels which had NEM compatible wheels for the European system. The reason being that the US one would not work well on European code 100 track. My understanding is that derailment with RP25 is less likely in the USA because they tend to have huge layouts with very wide curves whereas in Europe they tend to have small layouts with smaller loops requiring the larger flanges to negotiate the tight curves.

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE The other thing you'll notice is they operate their trains at 1/3 the speed of the tyros in Europe. (Freight vs Passenger)

Whats a tyro?

and while I'm asking what does BTW mean?

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 23 Jun 2006, 14:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Tyro originally meant new soldier but it's also used to describe an over anxious novice.

By The Way

oh