[Doug]

David Blythman has produced another detailed and thorough review of an interesting new model. Those of you who enjoyed his review on the Bachmann Ivatt class 2 2-6-0 and more recently, the Hornby Rebuilt class 7P "Royal Scot" will certainly appreciate this one too.

Click here for the review of the Bachmann class 6P "Jubilee".

Many thanks David

 

[neil_s_wood]

Very thorough and informative David, thanks for taking the time to do that.

Excellent review. I have one of these in the post at the moment. I decided there wasn't enough small locos on my layout. Do you think you can get a Lenz Gold in there?

I'm not sure about the sound in the tender planning as there are too many holes in the base. My understanding was that you want it to be sealed other than where the speaker is to maximise the sound quality. The rectangular series of holes does look similar to how I cut out my holes for the speakers in my 9F though.

Seems odd having the smoke box door open yet nothing to see inside. Maybe it can be used for storage of detailing parts that need re-attached?

 

[Richard Johnson]

An absolutely excellent review David. Thank you!
As luck would have it (always seems to happen when I start a loco - the RTR arrives!) I have 4 Jubilees half finished on the workbench at the moment. I'll have to pull out all the stops to make sure that they are at least the equal of this bachmann model - it has the right "look" unlike every previous RTR attempt at a jubilee!

Richard

 

[80class]

Thanks David,

I really informative review. Just have to wait for my "Australia" to arrive, i've had it on preorder for about ten months I think!

Rob

 

[7113]

David,

Another review to your usual high standard and excellent background data as well.

I must admit looking at the photos my first reaction waas that the lining didn't look right somehow.

Regards

 

[dwb]

QUOTE I decided there wasn't enough small locos on my layout. Do you think you can get a Lenz Gold in there?

I'm not sure about the sound in the tender planning as there are too many holes in the base. My understanding was that you want it to be sealed other than where the speaker is to maximise the sound quality. The rectangular series of holes does look similar to how I cut out my holes for the speakers in my 9F though.

Seems odd having the smoke box door open yet nothing to see inside. Maybe it can be used for storage of detailing parts that need re-attached?

I think a Lenz Gold may be a little bit wide but it should be easy enough for you to check.

My thinking on the holes is that the speaker would be mounted facing downwards, ie the air which the speaker shifts is in the upper part of the tender if you see what I mean.

Storage: The cab doors for my model are currently in the tender underneath the coal....

All your thanks are appreciated. Anyone who has written a review knows how long they take. Don't forget the extra work Doug has to do to format the reviews on the Forum. All he gets from me is a Word file and a bunch of JPEGs. I mailed the review yesterday evening, so he was working fast to get up the same night for which he has my thanks.

And finally, I came across an interesting photo from the photographic collection of the NRM which shows a Jubilee and rebuilt Patriot side by side at Euston. Seeing the size difference it is hard to believe that they were part of the same building program. Another point of interest is that the Jubilee has arrived with "The Irish Mail", so that's another named train to add to the list and of course adds the WCML to the confirmed area of operation. You can view the photo I found here. I didn't actually locate the image via the "See" category, so I have only just noticed how wide a selection of railway related stuff there really is; I went through the "Read" section which is decidedly smaller. Now I'll have to go back and look at the maps section.

David

 

[cbeagleowner]

That's a great review. It's just a shame about the orange on the model. People wiser than me say it's because the blak line isn't thick enouhg - you should call the lining black an dorange, not orange and black if you get me - that you get (certainly in photo's the 'tango'ed' effect. Is it the same as on Evening star, or has it got even brighter since then?

And Richard - do yo uhave apiccy's of your locos or layout - it sounds fab!

 

[dwb]

QUOTE tango'ed

The way the lining appears in photos seems to vary. In larger images displayed at full size, the effect is less marked, ie less orange. In fact looking at it, you do wonder what the fuss is about. The reality of the model is that the orange really does stand out so the smaller shots where it "glows" on the page at a true rendition. It does remind me of the Hornby 9F. It's probably not a co-incidence that my Airfix Royal Scot is similarly afflicted.

David

 

[cbeagleowner]

So would you say taht the photo at the top of the page was a good likeness dwb?

 

[dwb]

QUOTE So would you say taht the photo at the top of the page was a good likeness dwb?
Yes, especially the way the lining on the tender stands out.

I should say that I am viewing the images on a Iiyama Vision Master Pro 400 CRT. They were a good monitor in their day and probably better at colour rendition than a lot of LCDs. I used an Ottlite hobby lamp to light the loco. This is supposed to have a "daylight" like white light. The camera is a Fuji S9500 which has had good reviews from professional photographers.

David

 

[34C]

Fine review. I like the metal bodywork Bach have been putting into their recent releases, and would be quite happy to trade a little detail for the boiler to be in metal as well. By coincidence I was having a good look at 'Bahamas' in the Oxenhope shed only two weeks ago, but the thought in my mind was how the double chimney yet further enhanced what I think the most handsome UK 4-6-0. Definitely a long firebox version on my shopping list whenever Bach are pleased to bring one out, and if they don't offer Bahamas that's what it will be modified to look like.

It would be interesting to get other opinions on DCC decoder choice. I am now using Zimo MX63 with the design of motor in this loco. Particularly once well run in, some examples start on so little current that minimum output from a Lenz Gold is actually too great for a 'creep' into and out of motion. It is always necessary to remove capacitors to eliminate an effect similar in appearance to cogging over the first half dozen speed steps (128 step).

As for the livery in the BR era, as a small boy I genuinely thought they were turned out in brown. My family lived near the ECML, where the express locos were definitely green. Trips to St Albans or Watford gave the opportunity to see a railway where all the locos were what I still think of as 'midland brown'. So that's a treat my acquisition has in store, that interesting all over brown shade that adorned these machines during much of the latter years of service.

 

[dwb]

I think we will have to disagree on the effect a double chimney has a loco's appearance; they are not to my taste

QUOTE I am now using Zimo MX63 with the design of motor in this loco. Particularly once well run in, some examples start on so little current that minimum output from a Lenz Gold is actually too great for a 'creep' into and out of motion. It is always necessary to remove capacitors to eliminate an effect similar in appearance to cogging over the first half dozen speed steps (128 step).
That's a piece of advice I will store for later when I get around to fine tuning the performance of my locos. At present I have such long dead sections on the frogs, slow speed just isn't practical.

As for "Midland Brown", from the photos Eric Treacy took of Jubilees, even in B & W they do appear to have an overall patina of track dust.

David

 

[neil_s_wood]

QUOTE My thinking on the holes is that the speaker would be mounted facing downwards, ie the air which the speaker shifts is in the upper part of the tender if you see what I mean.

Yes that was my thinking too.

I might have to try another decoder in there if it's too big I guess.

 

[Richard Johnson]

QUOTE (34C @ 12 Jan 2008, 04:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>It would be interesting to get other opinions on DCC decoder choice. I am now using Zimo MX63 with the design of motor in this loco. Particularly once well run in, some examples start on so little current that minimum output from a Lenz Gold is actually too great for a 'creep' into and out of motion. It is always necessary to remove capacitors to eliminate an effect similar in appearance to cogging over the first half dozen speed steps (128 step).

**** A friend on this list reported to me he'd done a test with ESU, Lenz and new back EMF TCS decoders - So following his reaction, I did a direct comparison in a Hornby Princess, Bachmann 9F & Bachmann Jinty.

I'd already dropped Lenz long ago as I had seen a trend to mid term failure of the golds (they run warm to hot very often too) and
my current favourite when I did the test was the ESU lokpilot as of all the back EMF decoders it needed the least adjustment to accommodate varying motor types.

the result: (all cpacitors removed, all decoders hard wired. The only loco adjustment needed was on the pickups of the Jinty as they were not well "set" at the factory).

The Lenz Gold as 34C intimated had some difficulty in the first few speed steps - this could be tweaked a bit with the back emf and lowering Vmid and Vmax but not completely eliminated. Where it was close to eliminated and the slow running "best", the decoder also had trouble finding "stop", going from slow forward to slow backward in one step - so some compromise was always needed.

The ESU LokPilot and the Zimo and the TCS were all EQUAL at lower range speed control - however it became clear that the TCS needed NO adjustment in any of the loco's tested to bve at its best, where the others all needed just a little tweaking.

This has since been borne out with customers reactions to hundreds of installs and sales. Total delight that they can both save about 1/4 to 1/3 on the price of the decoder and get the best possible result.

I should say that I now focus on ONLY ESU and TCS decoders although I can access and sell all four brands with no problem...

Selling lower cost decoders yields less cash in the till for me -so its not logical business wise.... but I always sell ONLY products that I am 100% happy with and so with both my modellers and resellers hat on, I very happily recommend the TCS above all of the more expensive brands AND I use them in my own loco's too!

Richard

DCCconcepts

 

[34C]

Thanks Richard,

When next I need a decoder, it can be a TCS for a try out. Probably for a Jubilee when the longer firebox version emerges: I picked up a double chimney for one from the 247 Developments stall at the St Albans show today, to ensure that Bach produce a d/c version.

 

[dwilson9]

Excellent and very helpful review. It's a great model and really looks the part. Agree with the comment about the lining - it really looks odd the first time you see it - and I also don't like Bachmanns' insistence in making the tender brake blocks line up with the frames rather than the wheels. Once you notice it, it really looks odd!!

 

[Romseyles]

Excellent review. Has anyone worked out what Bachmann were doing with fixing for the fall-plate? Is it the right one?

I have "Australia". The cab doors are going to need something done with them as the Fowler Tender is, I think, narrower. On mine the draw bar has two holes, rather than a long one fitted and a short one in the accesory bag. Is that normal?

Les

 

[34C]

QUOTE (dwb @ 11 Jan 2008, 18:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>.. shows a Jubilee and rebuilt Patriot side by side at Euston. Seeing the size difference it is hard to believe that they were part of the same building program. ..
Ah, the LMS 4-6-0 programme. Bachmann still haven't got around to the sloping throatplate ('longer firebox') variant of the Jubilee. In the meantime Hornby have produced the rebuilt Patriot, (with BR lining as good as any I have seen on RTR) another fine model. Wonder if Hornby realise that it is also suitable for the two 2A boilered Jubilees?

 

[PeterPug]

The review was really great and has whetted my appetite - I was considering a Black Five. The only concern I have is that Hattons list 'Australia' as 'LMS Crimson', rather than maroon. Is it maroon, and are Hornby and Bachmann's maroons actually the same?

 

[Romseyles]

I now discover that the fall plate actually has a wire insert in the front which when released produces two "ends" which plug into the two tiny holes just under the rear of the cab floor. Didn`t notice at first as it looked as if it was moulded hinges.

I would say that Bachmann "Maroon" , I think the LMS called it Crimson Lake, is very slightly deeper and shinier than the Hornby one. They all look at bit "chalky" to me, as do the Brunswick Greens, others who feel the same get the T CUT out but I`m a bit wary of that. Others use household spray furniture polish, or "Sparkle". I have yet to be convinced you can get an even finish and how do you get into the fiddly bits?

Les