Model Railway Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Hi

Purchased a DCC head and tail lights from Express Models stand yesterday at Stafford railway show. I have fitted it and only the domino lights work in the direction of travel. It has tail lights but they don't come on. Now the instruction manual says the unit allows head and tail lights to work independantly using 4 functions. It also says that directional lights should be disabled.
Not I have a Loksound decoder and am kind a lost trying to disable the directional lighting as I think I have to operate all lights individually.

At the moment I haven't disabled anything so the head lights come on for the direction of travel. But tail lights not on at the rear.

Can someone help me with this please......

regards
Alan
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
*** I always wonder why things like the express models lighting kits sell.... Having looked at them and corrected a couple of miswirings for buyers who tried to install them, they are no easier than simply adding seperately bought LEDs!

It sound like this kit is arranged with each light set totally separate, but you can "automate" all lighting if you wish.

If you want automated lighting then one (front end) headlight and opposite end (rear) lights should be connected to the front light function (white - and blue +). Each light (red and white) should have its own resistor as red and white need different values (which as this is an express kit I presume is already done).

Ditto for the opposite end head light and opposing tail light, which should both be connected to the rear light function (yellow - and blue +).

regards

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 9 Feb 2009, 03:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** I always wonder why things like the express models lighting kits sell.... Having looked at them and corrected a couple of miswirings for buyers who tried to install them, they are no easier than simply adding seperately bought LEDs!

It sound like this kit is arranged with each light set totally separate, but you can "automate" all lighting if you wish.

If you want automated lighting then one (front end) headlight and opposite end (rear) lights should be connected to the front light function (white - and blue +). Each light (red and white) should have its own resistor as red and white need different values (which as this is an express kit I presume is already done).

Ditto for the opposite end head light and opposing tail light, which should both be connected to the rear light function (yellow - and blue +).

regards

Richard
Thanks for this Richard. It kinda makes sense what you are saying but i'm really new to all this DCC stuff. I can't tackle it for a few days but I'll have a look and get back to you on how I get on.

regards
Alan
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
*** No problem Alan - Once this one is done you'll be away and the next few will be easy. If you get stuck, just ask on list or PM me if you prefer

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
Alan,

Just fitted LED's to a GNER 125. Used a bi-polar LED (Red and white) at each end. Problems I had was both ends were white then changed to both ends red when direction changed. CV's 49, 50, 51 and 52 cover the lighting. This is from memory as at work and no access to data sheets. If you set the appropriate CV to 0 for forward and then appropriate CV to 16 for operation when in reverse direction. Appriopriate CV is the CV to align with the colour of the lead Richard identified. Found the LED's were to bright so by adding 12 to the CV setting ie 0 becomes 12 and 16 becomes 28 this gave 50% brightness and looked much better and no longer makes the cab look like Blackpool illuminations. I do have a slight trace of red reflected in the window wiper, noticeable when there is little light in the room. I have found the TCS website very useful for information on CV settings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
QUOTE (alan p @ 8 Feb 2009, 16:19) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi

Purchased a DCC head and tail lights from Express Models stand yesterday at Stafford railway show. I have fitted it and only the domino lights work in the direction of travel. It has tail lights but they don't come on. Now the instruction manual says the unit allows head and tail lights to work independantly using 4 functions. It also says that directional lights should be disabled.
Not I have a Loksound decoder and am kind a lost trying to disable the directional lighting as I think I have to operate all lights individually.

At the moment I haven't disabled anything so the head lights come on for the direction of travel. But tail lights not on at the rear.

Can someone help me with this please......

regards
Alan
Hi Alan
While this my seem like trying to teach you to suck eggs, I assume you have tried each of the four function controls? As you have a four function decoder and wired the decoder for individual functions, then normally F0 through to F3 will switch on/off each, though they are user selectable between F0 and F15 e.g. mapping. That's assuming you have used all the four wires from the decoder - Blue common positive to all LEDs Anode and then White, Yellow, Green and Purple wires to the individual (or pairs of) LEDs Cathode connections.
By doing this you can then turn on/off unwanted lights at will. e.g. Turn off the locos red rear lights when pulling a train.

I have always found Express Models DCC lighting kits to be ideal and well worth their cost, as they are normally made for a specific loco or unit. The PCBs the LEDs are mount on them fitting directly where the illumination is needed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (Flashbang @ 10 Feb 2009, 18:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Alan
While this my seem like trying to teach you to suck eggs, I assume you have tried each of the four function controls? As you have a four function decoder and wired the decoder for individual functions, then normally F0 through to F3 will switch on/off each, though they are user selectable between F0 and F15 e.g. mapping. That's assuming you have used all the four wires from the decoder - Blue common positive to all LEDs Anode and then White, Yellow, Green and Purple wires to the individual (or pairs of) LEDs Cathode connections.
By doing this you can then turn on/off unwanted lights at will. e.g. Turn off the locos red rear lights when pulling a train.

I have always found Express Models DCC lighting kits to be ideal and well worth their cost, as they are normally made for a specific loco or unit. The PCBs the LEDs are mount on them fitting directly where the illumination is needed!
Things are never as simple as they sound.... I have a sound decoder installed. So the functions 1-4 are already used up. I have tried functions 1-21 and nothing turns on the rear lights but I have lots of sounds..... .
So although my deltic sounds great.. I still can't get the rear lights on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
QUOTE (enM @ 10 Feb 2009, 13:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Alan,

Just fitted LED's to a GNER 125. Used a bi-polar LED (Red and white) at each end. Problems I had was both ends were white then changed to both ends red when direction changed. CV's 49, 50, 51 and 52 cover the lighting. This is from memory as at work and no access to data sheets. If you set the appropriate CV to 0 for forward and then appropriate CV to 16 for operation when in reverse direction. Appriopriate CV is the CV to align with the colour of the lead Richard identified. Found the LED's were to bright so by adding 12 to the CV setting ie 0 becomes 12 and 16 becomes 28 this gave 50% brightness and looked much better and no longer makes the cab look like Blackpool illuminations. I do have a slight trace of red reflected in the window wiper, noticeable when there is little light in the room. I have found the TCS website very useful for information on CV settings.
I think the trouble is that I am looking at the Loksound CVs so 49- 52 don't cover lighting...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 9 Feb 2009, 03:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** I always wonder why things like the express models lighting kits sell.... Having looked at them and corrected a couple of miswirings for buyers who tried to install them, they are no easier than simply adding seperately bought LEDs!

It sound like this kit is arranged with each light set totally separate, but you can "automate" all lighting if you wish.

If you want automated lighting then one (front end) headlight and opposite end (rear) lights should be connected to the front light function (white - and blue +). Each light (red and white) should have its own resistor as red and white need different values (which as this is an express kit I presume is already done).

Ditto for the opposite end head light and opposing tail light, which should both be connected to the rear light function (yellow - and blue +).

regards

Richard
I had to give up as my layout is in the loft and it's just gone below 0 degrees C here so even with a heater up there, si't sooo cold..... well freeezing in fact. What I don't understand is why the rear lights dont come on when the front headcode lights are on. Surely, it woould be simple for them to do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Now everything is going wrong. I have just noticed that it doesn't run smooth at low speed in one direction and it shorts in the other direction! I have checked the wires and nothing seems to be touching. It only shorts when I start to move the loco.

Maybe I'm not cut out for this digital buisiness...

and I still don't have the rear lights.

I wired the lights up matching colours from the decoder like it said in the instructions.

Would it help if I took a close up photo so someone could check the wiring for me.... ?

I'm getting really fed up now
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
*** Don't give up, but take your time... It doesn't sound good that the loco running is affected now... if you can take a photo it may help but no promises... If I was closer I'd suggest you sent me the loco to look at. (although you'd be far from the first to send one to me from UK - we do specialised install work all the time for UK customers)

It occurs to me: Is it the blue deltic? - if so it is a 21 pin loco, so I presume that you have an 8 pin decoder via an adapter?

If so, only F1 and 2 (lights front and rear, or white and yellow) are actually connected directly via the adpater - to activate others (f3 green and F4 purple), it needs links added to the adapter PCB... and this is not documented properly with the bachmann adapter.

Richard

QUOTE (alan p @ 16 Feb 2009, 03:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Now everything is going wrong. I have just noticed that it doesn't run smooth at low speed in one direction and it shorts in the other direction! I have checked the wires and nothing seems to be touching. It only shorts when I start to move the loco.

Maybe I'm not cut out for this digital buisiness...

and I still don't have the rear lights.

I wired the lights up matching colours from the decoder like it said in the instructions.

Would it help if I took a close up photo so someone could check the wiring for me.... ?

I'm getting really fed up now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 16 Feb 2009, 06:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** Don't give up, but take your time... It doesn't sound good that the loco running is affected now... if you can take a photo it may help but no promises... If I was closer I'd suggest you sent me the loco to look at. (although you'd be far from the first to send one to me from UK - we do specialised install work all the time for UK customers)

It occurs to me: Is it the blue deltic? - if so it is a 21 pin loco, so I presume that you have an 8 pin decoder via an adapter?

If so, only F1 and 2 (lights front and rear, or white and yellow) are actually connected directly via the adpater - to activate others (f3 green and F4 purple), it needs links added to the adapter PCB... and this is not documented properly with the bachmann adapter.

Richard
Hi Richard

It's the Bachmann (DPS) 55019 with 8 pin decoder. As per instruction I have connected the white, blue, green, purple and yellow wires to the same colours out of the decoder. I have soldered directly onto the top of the 8pin plug. I have checked to make sure there is no contact elsewhere on this plug. Like I say, it is a sound decoder and all the sounds work ok.

Pic of wires for lighting

Thanks for taking time over this. Any help appreciated.


Regards
Alan
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
It looks OK as far as I can see, but why is that second inductor (whe wire coil thing) discoloured???? - has the Express PCB been resting on it by any chance?

Also - what is the dark patch between blue and yellow on the express PCB - not a bit of solder I hope - if so, cut it away.... its shorting the connon + and yellow wire!

The whole of the express PCB copper is exposed as are the pads, so really needs properly insulating from everything else, especially the other PCB.

Also, remove C1 from the PCB along with any other capacitors fixed on the motor.....

----------------------------------------------------------

With it set up that way it is in the photo, you will at the very least, need to configure four functions to operate.

These will not necessarily be f0, 1, 2, 3 as it will depend how the decoder was set up by whoever programmed it. You will need to be sure that there is no conflict between which button operates which sound too - for example, if F1 turns sound on, it cannot also be used as a lighting function.

So... you have two choices - a complex re-organisation of the CV's to non-sound functions for lighting use which allows for the sounds to stay as they are OR a re-jigging of the sounds to free up 4 early functions for lighting only!

You really need a lot of patience or the LokProgrammer to do this easily - or send it to a sound expert to do it for you

OR

change the CVs so that all 4 lights are directional and on/off via F0. Same really - or send it to a sound expert to do it for you - Loksound manuals are awful for the casual user to understand (poor translations / not enough info) so messing with the Function CV's needs a lot of care if sound isn't to also be mucked up.

regards

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi Richard

To try and get to the bottom of things I checked the dark patch you mentioned and cleaned it up, but I don't think it was anything. I removed C1. I made sure everything was insulated from everything else. It still shorts. In fact I wonder if it has fried my Bachmann Dynamis controller as this now constantly comes up with a short on the display even with no loco on the track.
I plugged in my ZTC 505 and that was coming up with a short too.....

However, I think I know what's causing the short.. My Loksound decoder has fried
. I noticed that the plastic cover had melted in a small area. I pluged in a new Hornby 4 function decoder and all is well again. I plugged in the sound decoder again and it shorted and got hot quickly. Put the hornby one in and all is well again.

So, the £90 I spent on the sound decoder 3 months ago is now worthless.
Everything was ok before I installed the lights.

I just don't know what to think., I'm thinking I'll snip the wires to the lights and in time get a new sound decoder for it. Can't beat the sound of a Deltic! even if it has no lights.

So, I'm not sure what lesson I have learned from this. Perhaps to just buy locos with everything in them..... Oh and the Dynamis is off to Bachmann to be looked at.

Any thoughts Richard?

BTW thanks for your help.

regards
Alan
 

·
Just another modeller
Joined
·
9,983 Posts
***ESU can repair the chip for a fraction of the cost of a new one. Either take back to the source and ask them to arrange repair OR Send it direct to ESU by registered post (they can occasionally tend to lose things :) ) and include a no value customes declaration if one is needed within the EU as they are twitchy about customs clearlance costs.

Include card detail and if you can, a reciept - if not, tell them the date it wa bought... they are pretty good about those things... They can be slow but it will come back 100% good as new for quite a low cost.

I install very many chips and to be honest I never find it much of a problem, but I do see and fix faulty attempts for customers - usually its simply something not properly soldered or insulated - a moments carelessness that didn't fault when the body was off but shorted when the pressure of the body pushed the added item - like your express PCB, onto other electronics.

Don't give up - simply become very cautious, double check each part of the curcuit you are making and insulate with heatshrink or similar at every opportunity...

regards

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks Richard

I tend to think that the cost of repairing electrical products isn't what companies have in mind much of the time but I will enquire about repair perhaps with the UK importer (South West digital) first just to see what they can offer. I may even contact the place I purchased it from to see if they can offer any repair service as they do customise locos to individual orders such as lights and decoder fitting etc. Failing that I'll try and contact ESU to see about repair. I didn't realise they were based in Germany.

Thanks again for the advice

Alan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just thought I would add an update here....

The sound decoder has been sent back to Olivias trains where I purchased it. The owner was very helpful. He has sent it on to be assessed and next week I'll be chasing him for an update. I have lost patience with the lights and have snipped the wires. I have plugged in a 'normal Hornby 4-function decoder' and it doesn't run well at all and runs really jerky. Richard noticed something was not right with one of the 2 coils on the main board. I'm not sure what these are for but could the failure of one cause the running problem?

I'm thinking I need another board.


Alan
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top