[Doug]

Bachmann Europe Plc have released the first DCC "On Board" locomotive in the shape of 3F "Jinty" 0-6-0T No. 47629 in BR Black with late crest (Era 5). Apart from the Digital Train Set locomotives, this is the first separate Bachmann Branchline locomotive to be made available with the decoder installed. Indeed it is a first for the UK outline market with Bachmann leading the way again.

The locomotive (Catalogue No. 32-225DC) comes with the decoder already fitted and programmed to 3. This allows the purchaser to readdress the decoder to another number. The model will be available at a recommended retail price of £62.65 from Bachmann stockists.

Further DCC "On Board" locomotives will be delivered in the coming months including a 56xx 0-6-2T, 8750 0-6-0T, BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T, Class 37 and Class 57 diesels.

David Haarhaus Marketing & Sales Manager said "the last 2 years has seen a major advance towards DCC (Digital Command Control). We already have a good number of locomotives which are DCC ready and the next stage was to introduce locomotives with the decoders already fitted. This has worked well for us with the Bachmann America HO and Liliput continental ranges. I would like to reassure our existing customers that we will continue to serve the non DCC user (DCC "On Board" locomotives will work perfectly well on a conventional DC system) but we have to react to market demand and cater for all our consumers needs. We will continue to push the horizons as we expect to introduce the first of our DCC Sound locomotives later this year".

 

[Dennis David]

Better late than never.

 

[Doug]

I think it's a great move by Bachmann. There were a couple of locos with decoders released with their EZ Command set remember, but this is the first loco by itself to be released by a mainstream manufacturer. Hornby shouldn't be too far behind and by then Bachmann should have some sound equipped locos on offer.

I'm trying to get one of these to test. If I get one, I'll report on the decoder characteristics.

 

[Gwent rail]

After my wiring and your unit Doug, looks like I'll need one of these next !!

 

[Brian]

Brilliant Bachmann!

Wonder if the've removed the motor capacitors and any chokes.

 

[neil_s_wood]

Good to see British railway modelling has now reached the late 20th century. Looking forward to when it reaches the 21st and catches up with Germany and the USA in terms of technology.

 

[Makemineadouble]

BONKERS ! it shows little understanding of the basic concept of loco identification. Using for example the last Digit it would have made more sence to address the loco as 9, so why not choose a number that ended with one
as 47621, this would have made more sence, provided you programmed it as one. You didn't think this one through Bachmann. Apart from that it's good to see a DCC fitted loco in the UK. It remains to be seen if the decoder will be of any value. Personally I'd rather buy a loco without a decoder. Who's going to report the first run away, or erractic runner due to all the electronic crap they festoon their loco's with.

 

[Dennis David]

I think overall it's a good idea to have the decoder pre-installed as long as it's a decent decoder and can be removed/upgraded easily should the user want to do so and as I said before it's better late than never.

 

[JohnR]

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 11 Aug 2006, 15:30) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>BONKERS ! it shows little understanding of the basic concept of loco identification. Using for example the last Digit it would have made more sence to address the loco as 9, so why not choose a number that ended with one
as 47621, this would have made more sence, provided you programmed it as one. You didn't think this one through Bachmann. Apart from that it's good to see a DCC fitted loco in the UK. It remains to be seen if the decoder will be of any value. Personally I'd rather buy a loco without a decoder. Who's going to report the first run away, or erractic runner due to all the electronic crap they festoon their loco's with.

Its is part of the DCC standard for the default decoder address to be set to 3. So its not really Bonkers, just following the standard.

 

[Doug]

Lenz uses address #3 as the default. MMAD is right to say this is a bit strange. You would think that the loco address would be pre programmed to '7629' at least.

Bachmann did say to me this week that the CV settings would be factory set to prevent any problems.

I hope all Bachmann locos are not set to Address #3. The people who will be after this type of service are not going to be able to run more than one Bachmann at a time on their layout without re-programming....

 

[Oakydoke]

Don't all decoders come with Loco address 3 ? I thought it was the default.
The user needs to choose their own address for each device/loco/accessory.

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 11 Aug 2006, 18:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think overall it's a good idea to have the decoder pre-installed as long as it's a decent decoder and can be removed/upgraded easily should the user want to do so and as I said before it's better late than never.

Personally I agree with Dennis - standard factory fit decoders are fine for most people, but many people have very good reasons to use different decoders, maybe for lighting effects, extra smooth control, back emf & so on. Somehow though I doubt if H or B will make upgrading/replacement easy - I very much hope to be proved wring on this.

best regards
Brian

 

[Brian Considine]

QUOTE (Doug @ 11 Aug 2006, 22:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I hope all Bachmann locos are not set to Address #3. The people who will be after this type of service are not going to be able to run more than one Bachmann at a time on their layout without re-programming....

Doug,

ALL (unless the B decoder is different) decoders come factory default set at 3. This is I believe part of the NMRA standards & is the easiest CV to reset.

Also, if the default address was set at 7629, people who had "entry level" systems with 2-digit addressing would not be able to run it !

best regards
Brian

 

[Makemineadouble]

Yes we know all of that, (decoders are indeed shipped with 3 as the default address) but were talking about beginers here arn't we ?. Anyway the news that Bachmann maybe producing a Super D is encouraging - wish they do a decent 4F 2P and a compound 4P first.

 

[Thunder]

I don't understand the comments on the decocoder setting for the jinty, if i were to purchase a separate decoder, would it not have the default setting #3 ? So why should Bachman start using different settings, and start yet another confusion?

I was wondering what the price difference is between the loco with a decoder, and the same loco with out a decoder? Have they pitched the price so that it would be more expensive to purchase a DC model and fit your own decoder, or is it about the same cost to do it yourself. I recently fitted a decoder to a bachman Jinty, and it was a pain to do, not only did i struggle to remove the body, once inside i found very little room to install a decoder without removing some of the ballast this loco carries. So knowing what i know now i would have purchased this jinty with the decoder fitted, if, it had been available some months back.
Never mind mr Bachman, you cant please all the people all the time

 

[Gwent rail]

Just as I thought it was safe to come out of the DC shelter, into the sunshine of DCC, another contradictory discussion starts!!
At least with DC I just have to buy it and run it. Can you see how offputting all this crap is to a DCC beginner??

 

[Ozzie21]

"3" is the default address used all decoders that conform to the NMRA standard RP9.1. Address 1 is used by some manufacturers to allow the use of an analogue loco on DCC but is not used by most manufacturers Lenz being the only I can remember ever having used it. If the on board loco decoder is as I think based on a Lenz le1014 then anyone with a full function DCC system should be able to treprogram the loco to a four digit address. I would buy it but I would toss the onboard decoder in favour of something a bit more modern like a NCE N12 or N14 decoder. It should be remembered that the NMRA recommended practices for DCC are based almost wholly on the Lenz system. This was done by Berhard Lenz who gave all the technical specs to his system freely. The other manufacturers at the time, 1990, weren't so forthcoming.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (Doug @ 12 Aug 2006, 07:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Lenz uses address #3 as the default. MMAD is right to say this is a bit strange. You would think that the loco address would be pre programmed to '7629' at least.

Bachmann did say to me this week that the CV settings would be factory set to prevent any problems.

I hope all Bachmann locos are not set to Address #3. The people who will be after this type of service are not going to be able to run more than one Bachmann at a time on their layout without re-programming....

 

[Ozzie21]

Well it makes life simple for the beginer. Read the instructions that come with your set, read the instructions that come with your decoder equipped loco, place loco on track, select address 3 and hey presto it moves. What could be simpler, first test is over. Now if you have only a basic system that reads only 99 addresses chose a number between 3 and 99 and program it in, I would use the last two digits so long as they aren't "01". If you have an advanced system that supports 9,999 addresses you can program a 4 digit address into the decoder. The beauty of the system is that if you are happy with the programming thus far then that's all you have to do as the default values will allow the decoder to respond to all commands and a reasonable performance can be expected. If you want to change the performance of a decoder you can change it's starting voltage, acceleration, decelleration, load compensation, speed curves and a whole host of others. When I started with DCC the only to programm a decoder was with a computer, a serial interface and ASCII commands to program it but you had to build the decoder first and it was to big to go in a loco with a motor so it went in a dummy loco. We've come a long way since then.

Ozzie21

QUOTE (Makemineadouble @ 12 Aug 2006, 17:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes we know all of that, (decoders are indeed shipped with 3 as the default address) but were talking about beginers here arn't we ?. Anyway the news that Bachmann maybe producing a Super D is encouraging - wish they do a decent 4F 2P and a compound 4P first.

 

[wiggy25]

QUOTE (Brian @ 11 Aug 2006, 14:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Brilliant Bachmann!

Wonder if the've removed the motor capacitors and any chokes.

Thats the only reason I wont buy one!!

I've just taken the two small loco's apart that come with the EZ command starter set and they have decoders fitted, along with a mountain of capacitors and chokes!!
With these fitted and the loco on the track, it caused loads of problems on my other Hornby loco.
The slow speed and general performance was not that good, although these are from a starter set so are not that great anyway.
I fitted a TCS_M1 decoder to the Hornby and the performance is excellent. Yes it's a much better loco but a much better decoder as well.

Seems to me a better idea to buy a loco without decoder and then fit your own.

If Bachmann have taken out all of their capacitors and chokes and fitted their new decoder (which has B-EMF) then maybe I would buy one.

Ian

 

[Thunder]

I have to agree with Gwent-Rail, i have had a lenz Dcc control system for about 2years, and encountered my fair share of problems in getting locos to run correctly, If i was thinking of purchasing a DCC system now, it would frighten the life out of me, because, i would not and admit still don't understand half of whats being talked about, its getting to complicated, I have DC locos in the garden, i go out there plug in two wires and away i go, i can run any DC loco i wish. In loft i have a DCC layout, had to install a bus bar around the layout, fit decoders to locos, not always easy, program locos, remember how all the controls work, cos i forget and then have to check the info book, DCC is better but easier it is not, until it becomes easier and clearer it will continue to keep modellers at arms length. Bachman installing decoders for those of us who want dcc is a step in the right direction, and should help the understanding of dcc systems.Thats my opinion for what its worth.