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DT
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Bachmann Europe PLC has today released its Mark 1 Restaurant Miniature Buffet coach (RMB). 82 examples were built at British Railways Workshops in York and Wolverton between 1957 and 1962.

Prior to the introduction of these coaches, on train catering was provided by full kitchen cars which provided an at seat service and an associated buffet counter for take away meals. The RMB was provided for shorter distance routes and cross country routes where a full restaurant car service could not be justified and the fitting of small buffet counter allowed light snacks and drinks to be served.

The first batch of 12 vehicles (No's 1801 - 1812) was built to diagram 97 by British Railways at York between June 1957 and March 1958. They were fitted with BR1 bogies and had 48 seats fitted. Following trials it was decided to reduce the seating to 44 to allow additional stock storage facilities to be provided. All further batches were built with 44 seats and the original 12 vehicles were later retrospectively converted.

A further build to diagram 99 (No's 1813 - 1837) took place at British Railways Wolverton between July 1958 and December 1960. They were fitted with Commonwealth bogies.

Wolverton went on to complete three further builds. These were No's 1838 - 1852 built between May 1958 and June 1960 to diagram 98, No's 1853 - 1864 between May 1960 and January 1962 to diagram 99 and the final batch No's 1865 - 1882 built June 1961 and May 1962 again to diagram 99.

No's 1872 / 1873 were converted for use in Southern Region Electric Multiple Unit (EMU) formations around 1975. During the 1980's the RMB's were refurbished and fluorescent lighting was fitted.

The RMB's saw service on all regions of British Railways and after sectorisation passed to InterCity. Most had been withdrawn by privatisation but three examples survived in service with Anglia Railways until the last was withdrawn in 2001. A large number of these vehicles have been preserved and are in use on heritage railways.

The new Bachmann Branchline OO models are available in British Railways crimson / cream as preserved (39-260), Western Region chocolate / cream (39-263), Southern Region green (39-262), British Railways maroon (39-261) and British Rail blue / grey (39 -264). The recommended retail price of each coach is £21.50.
 

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It's good to see so much historical information being published along with the release. At least now I know not to bother looking for a crimson / cream early 50s version. I'll probably still get a maroon version and have a very good excuse for running it in pristine condition.

David
 

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Is the Blue/Grey version available with non-ER numbers eg WR or M or do we have to continue to put up with Bachmann's bias for ER numbers ?

Graham Plowman
 

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Does anyone know which numbers are in which livery? I have the older Mainline version in SR green numbered S1717. However it is labelled 'Buffet Restaurant Car" and seems to have a slightly different arrangement of windows. Is this in fact the same sort of coach at all? It rides on commonwealth bogies.

Sorry for the slightly confused question. I guess what I am really asking the assembed experts is

a) Are any of these new RMB's suitable for a BR/SR layout placed around the mid 1958 era, and what livery (green or maroon) would be correct?

What was the prototype of the Mainline S1717 in green that I already have?

Thanks for any enlightenment....

Norm
 

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There was a brief thread on coach liveries recently. You can go straight to it from this link.. Somewhere near the bottom you'll find I found a good starting place in Wikipedia.

There is also a page on the Internet which claims to record the details of every Mk1 coach every manufactured in 00. If you search on Mk1 coach and model or a similar combination you should be able to turn it up. Failing that, I think there's a link in a thread somewhere on the Forum. You may be able to turn it up using the "Search" function in the top menu bar.

Best of luck
David
 

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I think the bogies in the photo at the top are Commonwealth.

David
 

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David

Thanks for your reply with the useful links. By following that and some additional research I came up with this useful link for BR/SR modellers

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/comet/admin/d...allocations.PDF

From that page it would appear that there is another MK 1 Buffet car designation RB - as opposed to RMB and these are numbered in the 17xx range. It would appear to be one of these that the earlier Replica/Mainline model depicts. The new RMB models are numbered in the 18xx range

It would appear that by including a green RB or RMB in any train on my 1958 based SR layout I am treading on VERY thin ice, as the first of these vehicles was just being built at that point, and at this period the correct catering car would have been a Maunsell Buffet. Problem is that Hornby seem to have left that type off their list
Oh well, I will have to dust off my modellers license and pretend they were built in 1956 or so which is the earliest date they would have been painted green from new.

Question: Does anyone have information or links to share which would explain the difference between a MK 1 RB and and RMB?? Certainly the exterior and window treatment is quite different

Norm
 

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>Question: Does anyone have information or links to share which would explain the difference between a MK 1 RB and and RMB?? Certainly the exterior and window treatment is quite different

Source:- British Railways Mark 1 Coaches Keith Parkin Pendragon HMRS 1994/1999 ISBN 1 899816 07 0

RB's (restaurant buffets) had 23 seats a kitchen, pantry and bar
Diagram 21 running no.1700 - the 1956 prototype which had a serving counter instead of a bar
Diagram 24 runnings no's
1644-1699, 1701-1772.
Diagram 27 running no's 1923/4/8, 1953/4/6/9, 1961/2/5/9, 1970-3, 1981/4 converted from Diagram 23 unclassified restaurant cars

RMB's - restaurant miniature buffet. The buffet facility was reduced to 12ft6inch (the space of two seating bays) , but after experience with the first 12 vehicles a storage cupboard was added taking up the space of a further seating section
Diagram 97 running no's 1801-1812 (48 seats)
Diagram 98 running no's 1838-1852 (44 seats)
Diagram 99 running no's 1813-1837, 1853-1882 (44 seats, commonwealth bogies)
 

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>The buffet facility was reduced to 12ft6inch
Hence miniature I guess. Interesting.

Thanks
David
 

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< Source:- British Railways Mark 1 Coaches Keith Parkin Pendragon HMRS 1994/1999 ISBN 1 899816 07 0

Mike
many thanks for this reference and the reply. It gets clearer now. the RB which is the prototype of my older Replica/Bachmann model has a Kitchen and seating bays at only one end of the coach. The RMB has a central kitchen/Buffet section (much smaller) and seating bays each end

Interesting!!! And until recently all MK 1 restaurant cars looked the same to me.

My basic problem remains. Since these vehicles weren't constructed until just after my modelling period what SHOULD I use with Bulleid and (soon) Maunsell coaches. I know there are Bulleid 'tavern' cars and there was a reference to Maunsell Buffet cars in the link to cometmodels that I posted... Meantime I am going to dust off the modellers license since the RB and RMB are nice looking models and fit the bill ;!

Cheers
Norm
 

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>Interesting!!! And until recently all MK 1 restaurant cars looked the same to me.
There's a six page article in the 100th anniversary edition of Model Rail on BR Mk1 catering vehicles. My head's now in a flat spin in a sea of R this and R that. I now know that to be truly authentic I have to pair my Crimson & Cream Bachmann RFO with a Comet RK kit. I have not yet dipped my toe into the soldered brass arena and having read through Comet's online tutorial, I don't think I'm ready for it just yet.

David
 

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Sounds as though we are in the same situation David! I don't have my copy of Model Rail yet. Just took out a subscription and this issue is supposedly on its way to me in New Jersey. I'll look forward to reading that article.

Meantime tried to order a green RMB from Hattons this afternoon. 6 in stock when I placed my order. 5 in stock after I placed my order - so far so good. Then got the 'order picked' email and no RMB


Anyway, this education on catering vehicles is getting quite interesting.

On a related topic: (both green and Southern Region) Has anyone noticed that all the retailers are listing an additional FIVE Hornby King Arthur's for 2007, but that Hornby themselves are not (or I have missed the listing). Since one of these is a very old favorite - number 30755 'The Red Knight' I am really hoping they are being produced. The 'knight' is one of the few 'Arthurs with the LeMaitre double chimney and in it's day was apparently extremely well regarded by the shedmaster at Nine Elms, who conspired to keep it allocated to his shed for many years.

Norm
 

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David

my Model Rail arrived yesterday and the first thing I read was the article you refer to. You are right, it was extremely informative and there is a lot to know!

The two things I took away immediately were 1) Both my Replica RB, and the soon to arrive green RMB are suitable for use as the sole catering vehicle on a train, even though in real life they would most likely be paired with an First or Second open car, and 2) as I've mentioned before I shouldn't even be running them on my supposedly mid 1958 based layout.

I like the models and so I'm just going to pretend they were built in the mid 50's. Come to think of it, that would give me an excuse to get the carmine and cream RMB..... Hmmm

Norm
 

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>the first thing I read was the article you refer to
I'm glad you enjoyed it.

>I shouldn't even be running them on my supposedly mid 1958 based layout.
I think we can all get a bit too carried away on dates. I suspect their main use is to keep our appetite for rolling stock and locomotives within reasonable limits.


There's no reason why we can't "showcase" trains from a particular era or even model a particular named train over a 10 or 20 year life time.

David
 

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"The Red Knight" is definitely in the Hornby listing but we may have to wait for the catalogue for proof.

60134
 

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Firstly, thanks to 60134 for confirmation on hornby's forthcoming 'The Red Knight' There has been correspondence on the SEMG yahoo group on this topic as well and contributors there are hoping Hornby does it properly with the almost unique vertical smoke deflectors and the large LeMaitre double chimney

The main point of this post was to take up the point Dave made about running things 'out of period'. I was curious what other modellers do when a prototype you like just doesn't fit with your chosen era. David makes a couple of good suggestions such as 'showcase a favourite train over a period of years'. What do other people do. My own approach is a somewhat simple one - simply stretch introduction and withdrawal dates by around five years. In this way I can justify running a loco such as 'The Red Knight' withdrawn around 1955 if I recall correctly, with green Mk1 RMB's which appeared in the early sixties. I do try and keep road vehicles 'period appropriate', so no Mini's or MGB's, etc on my layout. If you want a sports car it has to be a Jag XK !!

My 'Five Year plan' isn't a bad approach, as often, especially with withdrawals in this era, they were caused by a failure that under different conditions would have been repaired and the loco staying in service, perhaps through one more major overhaul. I do steer clear of most diesels as my premise is 'Steam was more valuable than real life history'. That said, I am considering fitting sound to my Bachmann 08's and 04;)))) - and yes, all my diesel shunters have 5 digit numbers - 13365, 13029 and 11226. If any manufacturers are listening, I'd LOVE a model of one of the diesel pioneers such as 10000/1 or 10800

Cheers
Norm
 

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QUOTE (nnich @ 22 Jan 2007, 15:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The main point of this post was to take up the point Dave made about running things 'out of period'. I was curious what other modellers do when a prototype you like just doesn't fit with your chosen era. David makes a couple of good suggestions such as 'showcase a favourite train over a period of years'. What do other people do. My own approach is a somewhat simple one - simply stretch introduction and withdrawal dates by around five years. In this way I can justify running a loco such as 'The Red Knight' withdrawn around 1955 if I recall correctly, with green Mk1 RMB's which appeared in the early sixties. I do try and keep road vehicles 'period appropriate', so no Mini's or MGB's, etc on my layout. If you want a sports car it has to be a Jag XK !!

Agree with you there Norm, I try to keep my road vehicles in period (1971) but the only steam loco in My fleet is 6100 Royal Scot. Now the only steamer allowed on the main in 1971 was King George V, and the only Scot ever allowed on BR tracks was 6115. Therefore to run my steam special I have to change the loco and the company (or more accurately will have to as the layout is currently under construction).

And yes I KNOW other people will agree with me about fun and modellers licence!!

Regards

John
 

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Well for me I tend to keep the layout itself not too specific in period & make no pretence to be otherwise.

The trains themseleves however have to be pretty close to accuracy (with some "modellers licience" thrown in).

Our SNCB exhibition layout "St.Laurent en Ardennes" follows this principle (it also has a fair amount of working accessories) - it has a good varied selection of trains, it's fun to operate & the public seem to like it, so we must be doing something right !

At the end of the day virtually every model railway compromises somewhere - personally I feel that if the owner/operator(s) are happy & enjoy their creation thats all that really matters.
 

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>so no Mini's
Ah, not even one of the first off the production line in September 1959?

David
 
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