[tractor basher]

QUOTE (Gary @ 31 Aug 2006, 10:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This thread has gone off topic and we are no longer discussing Bachmann's support for website based publications.

Why is off topic bad? I know I'm new here, but every other forum I'm on allows threads to develop naturally...

Bachmann are a very helpful company in my experience. I think we're just seeing people's thoughts on the matter and the circumstances which may have led to the decision.

Their decision to may have been taken as a result of one incident on one forum, but does it really matter? I can't see the problem really - their website will still provide press releases and the magazines provide news. And so what if the magazines get news first? They reach a far larger number of people at the present stage - last time I was sorting out advertising in the Modeller their sales number around 50,000 a month, and there are only a few hundred on here and on rmweb. When i've been after puiblicity for my work I've always gone to the magazines first - well after talking to my existing customers first.

QUOTE Right now it seems that this thread is being slowly hijacked by stealth by those who wish to push their own agendas.

I think that's unfair - if something you're involved with is criticised, I think you'd want your chance to reply, explain or defend it.

 

[pedromorgan]

"This thread has gone off topic and we are no longer discussing Bachmann's support for website based publications."

sorry gary but the reason for bachmann stance is the thread we are debating. they are not 2 subjects they are the same subject.

"Right now it seems that this thread is being slowly hijacked by stealth by those who wish to push their own agendas."

just for the record, my agenda is to keep a forum where model railways of all types can be discussed sensibly and maturly. both the modelling aspects of the hobby and the business aspects of the hobby. something that MRF does very well (most of the time!)

Peter

 

[Dennis David]

I was just wondering why people were discussing RMWeb on this forum. There are two opinions on how threads should develop. At the Nostalgia Forum (Autorsport aka Atlas F1) which I helped start seven years ago it was our intention to allow threads to develop in any way people wished just like a friendly conversation might. It all depends on the forum.

As far as discussing the business of model railroading I agree with Pete it's a valid topic. The only issue I had was that there seemed to be almost an anti-German bias a while back but I think everybody has more or less come to an understanding that the markets are just different so it's all been good lately.

Sometimes there are strong feelings displayed because we all care about our hobby. I know that I have been fed up on more than one occasion not with any one person but just the direction of the forum as a whole. I take everything I do seriously and have created and maintained a number of websites on my own. Since March of 1997 I've maintained Grand Prix History single handedly. When one company whoever they are seems to denigrate the entire internet community which I think Bachmann is doing then I get really angry. I absolutely do not blame RMWeb, the moderators there or even the users who may have gone over the top. Hell it's a free country.

I feel Bachmann's actions are petty and the idea that they supported the online community in the first place is, well I won't even say what I think. Of course most companies don't even give us the time of the day so I guess Bachmann is not alone.

 

[tractor basher]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 31 Aug 2006, 15:08) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I feel Bachmann's actions are petty and the idea that they supported the online community in the first place is, well I won't even say what I think. Of course most companies don't even give us the time of the day so I guess Bachmann is not alone.

The other companies probably feel they can hit thousands of people by one bit in a magazine rather than trying to get a few hundred on a particular forum. It may also be a case that they've 'always done it that way'.

 

[Gary]

The marketing budget for Hornby and Bachmann is astronomical. Hornby are giving away £5000 in prizes in Model Rail at the moment and each of the colour full page adverts that they have each month on either the inside cover or back cover are probably around £800 (£10000 per year per magazine).

And then they spend a fortune on their own websites and catalogues!

In the context of this massive spend it does seem a bit odd that they are only prepared to spend maybe £100 to £200 each year at most if they spend any at all sponsoring sites that are enjoyed by the growing online community who support the hobby.

Think about the Hornby and Bachmann 2006 news stories at Model Rail Forum. The general consensous was that the presentation at MRF was rather better than that of both Hornby and Bachmann!

Happy modelling
Gary

 

[tractor basher]

QUOTE Think about the Hornby and Bachmann 2006 news stories at Model Rail Forum. The general consensous was that the presentation at MRF was rather better than that of both Hornby and Bachmann!

I'll agree with that, I've always found Hornby's site awful to navigate - was sent here to view the new products around the new year!

QUOTE (Gary @ 31 Aug 2006, 15:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The marketing budget for Hornby and Bachmann is astronomical. Hornby are giving away £5000 in prizes in Model Rail at the moment and each of the colour full page adverts that they have each month on either the inside cover or back cover are probably around £800 (£10000 per year per magazine).

And then they spend a fortune on their own websites and catalogues!

In the context of this massive spend it does seem a bit odd that they are only prepared to spend maybe £100 to £200 each year at most if they spend any at all sponsoring sites that are enjoyed by the growing online community who support the hobby.

It is because they have no control over what goes on underneath their name? Something blows up on a forum, then they will be associated with it regardless of whether it has any connection or not! Maybe they want to avoid this?

 

[Dennis David]

The Internet keeps growing by leaps and bounds. It's just that the hobby market is behind the times. Just look at the influence political and current affairs blogs have.

Even in hobbies more and more are getting their information on the internet. We only have to look at slot cars and the demise of Guia Slot Racing, the Spanish magazine. RM, Model Rail and the rest their time will come when they are begging for help in setting up proper Internet sites. By then it will be too late.

 

[tractor basher]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 31 Aug 2006, 17:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The Internet keeps growing by leaps and bounds. It's just that the hobby market is behind the times. Just look at the influence political and current affairs blogs have.

Whether that's a good thing or not is another matter though...

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 31 Aug 2006, 17:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Even in hobbies more and more are getting their information on the internet. We only have to look at slot cars and the demise of Guia Slot Racing, the Spanish magazine. RM, Model Rail and the rest their time will come when they are begging for help in setting up proper Internet sites. By then it will be too late.
I don't know about slot cars, so I know nothing about Guia Slot Racing.

But, why do RM and Model rail need websites? If they are providing a selection of articles to inform us and for us to hopefully enjoy in paper form, why do they even need a website? i've always regarded the Modeller as really a selction of articles which can build up a library of information than a current (railway modelling) affairs publication. If anything was online, an Index would be the most useful for me!

I would hate it if MRJ was solely based on the internet and we losty paper based publications - unliklely for a long tiem yet, but could it happen?

If a magazine has no website, it doesn't bother me at all. Many people still don't have internet access - I read the other day that less than 50% of homes in the UK actually have a computer. Being able to contact by e-mail is a must though I think now.

 

[Dennis David]

Right now they don't. The hobby reading public is just not there yet but just look at other media like newspapers, TV stations and magazines. They are all loosing market share to the Internet. It's plain to see where it's all heading and only a matter of time.

 

[tractor basher]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 31 Aug 2006, 17:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Right now they don't. The hobby reading public is just not there yet but just look at other media like newspapers, TV stations and magazines. They are all loosing market share to the Internet. It's plain to see where it's all heading and only a matter of time.

But I think there will always be a place for paper based publications.

 

[Dennis David]

I hope so too! You're talking to somebody that buys a book a day and has his own library. But I'm afraid that at the end of the day it will be economics that decides what happens and not what you or I would want.

 

[tractor basher]

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 31 Aug 2006, 18:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I hope so too! You're talking to somebody that buys a book a day and has his own library.

I noticed you seemed to have a lot of books, from the pictures in your blog! looks like my house, only it your's look that bit tidier! I'm not quite at a book a day though yet though!

QUOTE (Dennis David @ 31 Aug 2006, 18:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>But I'm afraid that at the end of the day it will be economics that decides what happens and not what you or I would want.

I think most news items will eventually change over to electronic means - people like the instant way the internet can provide updates.

 

[Pennine MC]

There seems to be a spectrum of opinion on whether mention of RMweb threads is relevant here. I'd make the following points:

* In the opening post of this thread, RMweb was mentioned as a factor in Bachmann's decision. To me, the two issues are clearly intertwined.

* The offending passages on RMweb have been removed. Tho I'm no legal expert, I understand that action will absolve the site moderator of responsibility, so I dont expect the site to disappear

* I agree with Tractorbasher that the comments now posted on a private website are more vitriolic and potentially damaging than anything that appeared on RMweb

* Other threads were mentioned to put some context to Hoonsou's defence. He has already stood his corner and I don't wish to labour the point, but I must mention this post:
QUOTE ...So far nobody has really ripped into the real culprits, the originator/originators of the offending posts, so allow me. If you are a member of this forum, get the F*** out of here, we don't need you. If not allow me to give you some advice, DON'T JOIN, WE DON'T WANT YOU.

Someone earlier mentioned RMweb being a 'bunfight'. Well, that made me smile; I quite like a bit of grown-up rough'n'tumble, within reason. But my point is this: had a comment like that appeared on RMweb, I think a good number of other members would have taken exception to its tone, let alone those who were being 'outed'.

For my own part, I made my reasons for joining this forum clear in my first post, so I wont repeat them here. I've no intention of 'taking anything over by stealth' but I do like to see fairness. That said, I hope the negative aspects of RMweb can now be considered a part of the topic which has run it course.

 

[Dennis David]

Well said

 

[Gwent rail]

After a few days "offline", allow me to quickly reply to hoonsou re his reply to my comments.

I can assure you that my original post said "originators of the offending posts", not originators of any particular topic. I agree that your post re couplings should not be a problem and was not referring to that. If my text didn't make that clear enough, please accept my apologies.

What I was talking about were the comments taken as bordering on libel, which I believe were in the class 57 postings that you referred to. If we slag anybody off to that extent, more or less calling people liars, we shouldn't be surprised at adverse reaction.

Even so, I still think Bachmann are wrong to try to spank us all for one naughty boy in the class. I still say "COME ON BACHMANN, DON'T BE CHILDISH AND TAKE YOUR BALL HOME. ----- Yes, I know capitals are taken to be shouting when written in an email, but immaturity in adults makes me so bloody mad !!!

SO THERE !!

 

[Doug]

QUOTE (neil_s_wood @ 1 Sep 2006, 03:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Consider the matter closed.

Hi all,

This topic has run it's course as it is starting to fray at the edges and lead on to other arguments. The last 13 posts have been pruned as they were on another altogether unrelated subject.

It seems we have needed to vent our frustration and we have done that. The topic is now closed. I will get back to you with what Bachmann say to me next week. If anything important needs to be added, please PM me.

 

[Doug]

Update:

We are soon to be meeting with Bachmann to discuss our future working relationship. They are willing to chat and work with us in a manner that hopefully will suit both their business and our forum and online activities.

We'll report on that meeting in due course.

 

[Doug]

Update:

Following a meeting with Bachmann at their head office we can confirm that Model Rail Forum have been granted full media access with the associated permissions.