Ballast + Underlay for large station area

2119 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by upnick, Feb 8, 2009

oitoitoi

Discussion Starter · Jan 23, 2009

Hey guys, I'm building a large station area as the focus of my layout and am undecided on what to use as underlay. I'm very keen on acoustic dampening (don't want to be laying track straight onto plywood) of the trains so I'm using woodland scenics track bed for the mainline, however to cover the station area with this would cost a fortune and it seems innappropriate. I guess I need some kind of rubber matting that will take paint. Any tips?

Also I'm unsure as to how to ballast the station area, would the whole thing be ballasted like a mainline? Would the areas either side of the station be fully ballasted too? If it helps I'm basing my station on Newcastle in the 1930's (no diamond junction though....) and I'm using PECO code 75.

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Flashbang

· #2 · Jan 23, 2009 (Edited by Moderator)

Hi
For part 1 of your question, most of this underlay subject seems to have been debated here… Underlay topic

As for ballasting assuming you're gluing the ballast in place, as is normal (50/50 PVA glue/water and a drop of washing up liquid) then the ballast will become a solid, so wont most of the sound still be transmitted to the baseboard via the solid glue/ballast mass?

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mick b

· #3 · Jan 23, 2009

Try Copydex for ballasting diluted x 4 with water , will not transmit sound like PVA as dry flexible. You can also remove track for further use if needed.

Mick

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upnick

· #4 · Jan 24, 2009

QUOTE (mick b @ 23 Jan 2009, 18:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Try Copydex for ballasting diluted x 4 with water , will not transmit sound like PVA as dry flexible. You can also remove track for further use if needed.

Mick

Hi Mick,

Usual mix for PVA is 50/50 what mix do you use with Copydex 1 part glue to 4 parts water ? and do you still use a drop of washing up liquid to break the surface tension ?

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patrick draper

· #5 · Jan 24, 2009

I prefer to hear the locomotive run over the gaps and points so I have my track pinned directly onto the sundeala board and ballast round it. Just a preference but to me I like the realism.

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mick b

· #6 · Jan 24, 2009

QUOTE (mick b @ 23 Jan 2009, 18:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Try Copydex for ballasting diluted x 4 with water , will not transmit sound like PVA as dry flexible. You can also remove track for further use if needed.

Mick

Please read here which explains all

http://www.finescale.org.uk/show_page.php?pid=103

I have some ash ballast on order for my current layout

Mick

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Richard Johnson

· #7 · Jan 24, 2009

*** As has often been mentioned on thread, 50:50 is far too much glue.

Try 1/3 glue, 1/3 methylated spirits and 1/3 water as the heaviest mix, as it still works with much, much less glue than that.

Meths is far better at breaking surface tension than dishwashing liquid and with meths in the mix, it dulls the PVA shine better and dries much faster too.

prespray track with pure meths, apply glue with syringe, respray with meths.... glue instantly disappears totally into ballast.

Re foam.

You wand a PE or EVA closed cell foam sheet 5mm thick to match the ballast strip you have already used.

Richard

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upnick

· #8 · Jan 24, 2009 (Edited by Moderator)

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 24 Jan 2009, 13:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** As has often been mentioned on thread, 50:50 is far too much glue.

Try 1/3 glue, 1/3 methylated spirits and 1/3 water as the heaviest mix, as it still works with much, much less glue than that.

Meths is far better at breaking surface tension than dishwashing liquid and with meths in the mix, it dulls the PVA shine better and dries much faster too.

prespray track with pure meths, apply glue with syringe, respray with meths.... glue instantly disappears totally into ballast.

Re foam.

You wand a PE or EVA closed cell foam sheet 5mm thick to match the ballast strip you have already used.

Richard

I use Woodland scenic trackbed i hope is ok for the closed foam ........ and will try the 1/3 mix of PVA Richard

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Richard Johnson

· #9 · Jan 25, 2009

*** Hi Nick

yes the WS stuff is an EVA foam.

Richard

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BVM

· #10 · Jan 25, 2009

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 24 Jan 2009, 13:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** As has often been mentioned on thread, 50:50 is far too much glue.

Try 1/3 glue, 1/3 methylated spirits and 1/3 water as the heaviest mix, as it still works with much, much less glue than that.

Meths is far better at breaking surface tension than dishwashing liquid and with meths in the mix, it dulls the PVA shine better and dries much faster too.

prespray track with pure meths, apply glue with syringe, respray with meths.... glue instantly disappears totally into ballast.

Re foam.

You wand a PE or EVA closed cell foam sheet 5mm thick to match the ballast strip you have already used.

Richard

I tried Richards approach when I first saw it about 15 months ago and it works extremely well.

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upnick

· #11 · Jan 25, 2009

QUOTE (BVM @ 25 Jan 2009, 10:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I tried Richards approach when I first saw it about 15 months ago and it works extremely well.

Make a start then soon ballasting

.... thanks for confirmation Richard with the WS stuff

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upnick

· #12 · Feb 5, 2009

QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 24 Jan 2009, 13:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>*** As has often been mentioned on thread, 50:50 is far too much glue.

Try 1/3 glue, 1/3 methylated spirits and 1/3 water as the heaviest mix, as it still works with much, much less glue than that.

Meths is far better at breaking surface tension than dishwashing liquid and with meths in the mix, it dulls the PVA shine better and dries much faster too.

prespray track with pure meths, apply glue with syringe, respray with meths.... glue instantly disappears totally into ballast.

Richard

I tried the mix this afternoon all i can say is ecxcellent the flow is a easily a lot better and will speed up ballasting time

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eddscott

· #13 · Feb 8, 2009

Does it not take ages to syringe the glue onto the ballast?

Only ask because I'm just about to start ballasting for the first time

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upnick

· #14 · Feb 8, 2009 (Edited by Moderator)

QUOTE (eddscott @ 8 Feb 2009, 10:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does it not take ages to syringe the glue onto the ballast?

Only ask because I'm just about to start ballasting for the first time

Hi eddscott,

I use a 60ml syringe to drip the glue mix Richard outlined in his post #7 on this thread.
Mix it up in quantity in an airtight container well ...... not in the syringe, get your ballast in place making sure it works its way down to the base of the sleepers by using a small piece of wood to gently tap the rails as you go ....... mist spray the ballast with meths and soak it ......... apply the glue and the meths will wick the mix right down.

Around the moving part of points apply glue either side of the sleepers ...... i never put glue on the inside of the rails there the meths is enough to wick the glue in and fix the ballast, saving the closure rails being glued up.

Good ventilation is important while doing the ballast.

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