[Richard Johnson]

*** Sorry Zmil... I know its individual thought that is the focus of this thread ..... but from my perspective, how can you say the worst aspect is the gap in the buffer beam when the wheel flanges are HUGE and scream "Toy" as soon as you look at the picture!

There are very many very fine EU model locomotives, but very very very few that can claim to look good below the running boards!

EU wise, I can't fairly comment on one individual loco but to me the move of Brawa into more refined RTR mainline products took things "detail realism wise" a step beyond almost anything I've seen by Roco, FLM, Matrix, Liliput etc... Brawas refinement in everything from flanges to handrails seems a step above the rest.

I think that the "break point" in RTR for US modellers was Kato + Stewart hobbies F7 - Kato took a commonly modelled prototype that had been made in the millions and added detail and refinement plus a superb mechanism to start a waterfall in other US Brand improvements... This was followed by Lifelikes sudden change from toylike to superdetail with their E8 and the flood of subsequent and always nice Proto series models.... and all the rest fell into line. Athaerns current nice lco's really owe their new found refinement to Stewart & Highliner which they absorbed to take them from reliable toy to realistic models.

Madkitten/Poliss: Those early Brass loco's were never very good - the detail was OK in comparison to concurrent RTR, but in reality no better than a bowser loco with detail kit added... mechanisms and motors were universally poor so good running required hours of fiddling with minor shorts and frequently, remotoring and new gearboxes (thank god for NorthWest Short Line who started their business in order to provide quality parts to fix faulty Japanese/Korean brass loco's!!

The detail and accuracy/proportion of earlier brass was actually very clumsily done in many cases.

I think that for UK Prototype Hornby Dublo's "super detail" series was the quantum leap, taking RTR from tinplate to well proportioned injection moulded plastic models.

For a more current UK perspective: Hornby, they progressed in a stuttering sort of way but real change came to them and Bachmann with the move to China.. Personally I think for Hornby the the Pullman coaches, Black 5 and 8F were the real start of something special loco wise (my LMS preference is showing there) and for Bachmann, BR Mk1's, the Jinty and their LNER A4, which I still prefer to the Hornby offering body and running quality wise.

Regards

Richard

 

[Richard Johnson]

Yes, agreed, however my benchmark is realism from top to bottom, not an attempt to compare older with newer models, and as its only recently that EU brands are embracing reasonable wheel look and quality, my personal benchmark is only recently being achieved.

My comment was specific to that FLM illustration - to each his own of course, but to me, the coupler gap was far less abhorrent than the very nasty wheels!

Re Bachmann, yes, of course, but the re-endergising and total retooling of the chinese production capabilites made the change possible: Over many years I've visited those factories before and after, and they are now aa totally different level of facility and expertise... with a different professionalism and pride in results

Brawa did indeed do lots of quirky and mediochre stuff, I have owned some of it over the years...but again, Brawa now and then are different in attitude to the market - I have no doubt it was a change they had to make to stay afloat in a growing sea of ever improving product - but their position is now consciously high end, and that appeals to me.

Comparing similar HO scale prototypes, I'd say that among those I have handled in the main they are significantly better models plus finer detail and more of it - not merely good.

Importantly to me, Brawa is at least now consistent with their product release quality level... It still appears to me most EU brands just dabble with excellence whilst maintaing a mass of "average to good" offerings.

If this trend accelerates and RP25 or hopefully finer becomes the norm, then it means not having to re-wheel my fledgling fleet of EU loc'os, and that appeals greatly - encouraging me positively towards EU modelling at long last... I don't mind doing it but I already have enough high quality UK 4mm and NZ S scale kits to build to last two lifetimes!

Kind regards

Richard

 

[Richard Johnson]

***Yes, of course, however my personal benchmark is realistic wheelsets, and an ability to work on finer scale turnouts, so thats not really the point.

I made no comment about other brands as I do not wish to make a brand by brand issue out of a simple comment... They do what they have always done and for many modellers thats fine and I have no criticism of their choices, but because of that, they simply fall short for me...

Whilst I understand that set track layouts, the need for tight radii and old modelling habits habits need to be catered for, deeper flanges are habit not a necessity as they certainly don't aid track holding on average to well laid track at all... and wheels are not a hard thing to change as they all need a final turning anyway.... so there's simply a spec change, not a big tooling cost or anything else really stopping "other" brands offering the option of proper wheels to compliment many already otherwise quite excellent products - And certainly very many of the offerings from several brands are excellent models riding on less than excellent wheelsets.

I can't help thinking that this failure to properly adopt what are now almost global wheel standards costs them dearly - and they are also careless:

For example, Trix want to play in the large US market and make someOK US locomotives that run mechanically very well when they try yet their loco's are frequently uncomfortable transiting NMRA standard turnouts as their back to back is still set wrong even when they use RP25 wheels!

This carelessness also affects Bachmann UK and Hornby models, which DO have nice wheel profiles now but are very inconsistent in BTB... whereas US prototype stuff from the same factories with the same wheel profiles are properly set up back to back wise - its not at all sensible!

regards

Richard