[BobB]

Reading some of the threads on the forum it is clear that those that like diesels have some strong opinions as to which class was the best.

As for me, I am torn between the class 33 Crompton (because I lived on the Southern and was pulled by most of them, just missed a couple of the slim jims) and the class 25 Rat. The rats looked good after the body was cleaned up and seemed to work beyond their theoretical capability. Maybe it was because seeing one was confined to a trip away (Reading closest, Exeter most common) that the Rats became favorites.

What do you guys think, and why ?

 

[stmartins]

Its terrible but I hated the advent of the diesel. Being a steam enthusiast (and I hasten to add young and impressionable) I watch the gradual creeping in of the diesel. I had a great view from my bedroom window and could see 1000 & 10001 regularly on the London to Derby run at 3pm in the afternoon. Then I remember the "Condor" a diesel pulled freight train from London - Bonny bridge full of cars and was a good timekeeper going through Bedford at five to 8 at nights on a regular basis. It was scheduled as a diesel as the run was long and it could do it with the same loco pulling the train.
I think the diesel that made the biggest impression on my intrepid bike rides to Sandy ( all of 10 miles) was the original Blue Deltic. I found this loco had a bit of colour , nice noisy exhaust when pulling under load and yes,I actually liked it

 

[6991]

This is going to sound strange, but well, you wanted a discussion..

What is your definition of 1st generation? Before 1955? Before 1950? Before 1960 ?
When did your 2nd generation start? 1955? 1960? 1965?

I guess if we are talking truly about 1st generation mainline, then 10000/10001, 10100 and 10201/2/3 might be it, in which case I prefer the 10201/2/3 - handsome locos (I know some people will want to include too, maybe 10800). This criterion is based upon designed (10000/1 and 10201/2/3) and introduced (10001/2) before Nationalisation or designed (10100) and introduced (10100, 10201/2) shortly after. Would the blue deltic sneak in (1955 from memory)? Maybe a discussion point but not really, definitely beginning of gen 2 !

There was definitely a logical break between these 3 early classes and later developments. 2nd generation might be anything say (for example) in the 1957 combined volume. 3rd generation would then be post 1960. This would make Brush type 4, arguably the most versatile diesel loco built for BR, and a favourite of mine, definitely 3rd gen.

By the way, I also loved the D6500 class, saw them all !!

Cheers
6991

 

[Guest]

Hi,

I don't know if they were 1st generation or not, but for me the Western Regions Diesel Hydraulic Westerns, growling past Redhill Junction just outside Hereford in the 60's, are the most iconic, saw every one of the class too. In another life I worked for British Rail at Barrs Court Station, Hereford and Barton Yard, Hereford as a telegraph clerk, ( before it became the site for a Super Store ), BR made me redundant at 16, all telephone/telegraph/telegrames etc went over to the GPO. Happy day's.

Dick

 

[BobB]

I think of first generation diesels as being those that were initially designed as pilot scheme locomotives and then for some, the small numbers were increased with a view to eliminating steam. This would preclude the first five main line experiments and locomotives such as the Brush type 4, the Hoover class 50 etc.). I'm a bit hazy about the Hymek - should it be included or not ? The next problem is the Deltic (class 55). I don't think we could exclude such an icon even if BR didn't really encourage it to begin with.

I suppose some of the less than succesful types stand little chance of being reagarded as favourites, but you never know !

 

[6991]

OK Bob,
Thanks for clarifying. If you go back above, I mentioned the Summer 1958 Combined Volume (I meant 58 not 57) as a possible yardstick (not counting boring shunters!!). Lets see what was there..
10 Peaks (D1-D10)
10 EE4 (D200-D209)
5 v1 (A1A-A1A) Warships (D600-D604)
33 v2 Warships (D800-D832)
45 type 3s (D6500-D6544)

Of course, maybe not all were delivered in 1958.

plus 20 each of D5000, D5300, D5500, D5700
10 D5900, 10 D6100 and 6 D6300 - not going to type 1s!!

Looks like a pretty good marker.

6991

 

[7113]

Going on the basis of the '58 ABC my choice is a draw between the B-B Warships and the D5000, the latter were probably the first main line diesels I ever saw as a batch were loaner to the SR pendinig delivery of the cromptons. Probably explains the HO warships and D5013 with no yellow panel!

Regards

 

[34C]

Why exclude the type 1 classes? English Electric's D8000 (class 20), is the easy winner: it went on in service unmodified until all but one other pilot scheme class had long gone out of BR service. That other class is the runner up, Brush D5500 series, similarly long lived, albeit having to be re-engined. Between them they outlived all the other pilot scheme units by a large margin, and (I think) all but classes 37 and 47 of BR's second and third generation developments. Let's hear it for the 'Thousand horse' and 'Ped'.

 

[7113]

I think I see a bit of regional bias developing here - but nothing wrong with that. I would agree that the D8000/class 20 was a good design though.

Regards

 

[andrew]

Best or favourite? The best would be hard to pick, though I think I would vote for the Deltics, both prototype and production, as probably no other diesel had such an impact on both the general public and enthusiasts because of the change they brought to the railway. What else could accelerate up Stoke Bank at that time? It was one of the loveliest sights and sounds on rails anywhere.

My favourite will always be the Class 26, or BRCW Type 2 as we knew them back then, and that's because of a happy summer as a student working on them at Inverness locomotive depot, and joyriding on them all over the Highlands. I worked on the Class 24, the Derby Type 2, as well, but the early ones seemed much inferior to the 26. A particular memory is of changing the engine oil filter. On the BRCW you could lift it out through a panel in the side of the body without too much bother, but on the Derby it had to be hauled along the passageway beside the engine, through the narrow door into the cab and out the side door, leaving an unholy mess of spilt oil behind it. I think they changed that in the later ones, but we had the oldest. There was one that was jinxed, D5128, I think it was, a Bill Bailey of an engine that was always failing out on the road. Great memories, and thanks to Heljan for their very nice Class 26 to remind me of them.

 

[adecoaches26point4]

I was lucky enough to move to Devon and found Maroon Warships/Westerns, watched them from Burlescombe roofing tile works.
The sound of Maybach engines

what more can I say, unforgetable

David

 

[7113]

QUOTE (adecoaches26point4 @ 24 Feb 2009, 15:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The sound of Maybach engines

what more can I say, unforgetable

Yes - there was a certain something when a Western really opened up - marvellous, the earth certainly moved for me!

Regards

 

[Madkitten]

Class 31 - and they are still going strong !!! great locomotives.............................................

Looks best in fragonset livery though any locomotive does its such a beautiful colour scheme......................

Nikki

 

[7113]

QUOTE (Madkitten @ 24 Feb 2009, 17:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Looks best in fragonset livery though any locomotive does its such a beautiful colour scheme......................

Hmm, not sure if I would call the Fragonset livery beautiful!

Regards

 

[6991]

Well, I have to agree a little bit with Nikki about the 31s.
One of my most memorable trips behind a Brush '2' was from March to Cambridge via Chatteris and St Ives in 1965.
From July 31st 1965 to August 6th, I had a Railrover on the Eastern Region. I was based in my Gran's house in London, so had to come back to town every day. I was only 13 but made many of my trips memorable that week by travelling on lines now closed or lifted for 40y.
The ticket cost me 3 pounds 13 shillings and 6 pence - I know this because I am looking at it while I write - my paper round paid about 11/6 and I had a TT-gauge layout (SR/GWR prototype) to stock and maintain, so it was a few weeks savings.
I think it must have been the Wednesday of the week, not good with diaries, but good with memories.
I would have taken the 8.30 semi fast out of Liverpool St to Norwich and still EE4 hauled at that stage (earlier that year I had an official cab pass - long story - for the 9.30 and what a trip that was)
At Norwich I changed to a DMU for the trip to Kings Lynn reversing at Dereham.
From Kings Lynn to March via Wisbech it was a Brush 2 hauled set of what must've been a Gresley/Thomson corridor mixture.
I waited at March for an hour or so, and they marshalled about a 6 coach train, again of cascaded Thomson/Gresley corridor stock (with at least 2 parcels vans from memory) for the Cambridge train behind one of the March engines probably either D5580/1/2 (all copped in my locoshed book - underlined with wiggly lines!). A sunny summers' late afternoon, the lovely countryside, the GER station buildings, all vivid memories.
Changing at Cambridge, catching the express back to Liverpool Street, behind one of the Stratford D6700s.
Ahhhh, those were the days.
There was not much steam (0) that day obviously, but I had many chances during the week and was utterly delighted with my steam cops from further afield.

6991

 

[patrick draper]

I agree with Andrew, the Deltics were the best diesel of all, they looked good and sounded beautiful. They made such significant time savings on the East Coast Route, I also think for longevity then the IC125s must come into the reckoning. How many other diesels have clocked up their mileage? I am a steam fan and model steam era but I admire great engineering. The Western Hydraulics were never up to the job and were not popular with loco crew.

 

[11B]

Hi all,

I feel that this is going to be a very interesting topic

Of the diesel I can remember I'm torn between Cl 20's as I spen time a few years ago playing with 20214 on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite, and Cl 31's as I ha da few cab rides between Barrow in Furness and Preston when I did my school work placement on what was then BR. God I feel old now

On the other hand one that I never saw in service, but like just because it was different is the Cl 28 (what's the chance of anyone doing a ready to run one!!!!).

Ian

 

[7113]

QUOTE (ijb2085 @ 25 Feb 2009, 12:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>On the other hand one that I never saw in service, but like just because it was different is the Cl 28 (what's the chance of anyone doing a ready to run one!!!!).

Not many did! Mind you one made it into rail blue and another, D5705, into preservation

Regards

 

[6991]

I thought Hornby Dublo 3-rail did a D5700??
6991

 

[11B]

Fair point - but I was thinking of something that didn't weigh a ton, looked a little bit better, and now the most important bit could be DCC ready (I don't fancy trying to take one apart and then try to put a chip and lights etc into it - I'm just getting used to the hole DCC thing without the whole electronics thing on top!!!).

Finding one these days might not be the easyest thing either!!!

Ian