Black Five

Pelle · Sep 20, 2008

As I am rather new in BR modelling and information in Austria is not very easy to get, I am wondering what a Black Five is (I have seen pictures of locomotives with different numers).
Is there anyone who can explain that?
Thank you
Pelle

dwb · Sep 20, 2008

A "Black Five" is an LMS locomotive with a power classification of 5 which carried a black livery. Power classes ranged from 1 to 9 (Not sure about 9 for the LMS but certainly for the BR period). It had a 4-6-0 wheel arrangement. The LMS had other 4-6-0 locomotives such as the "Scots" which were class 6 and Jubilees which were originally 5XP and carried a crimson livery - ie not black (at least before the war).

This Wikipedia article will get you started. There is also a site dedicated to the Jubilees.

David

John Webb · Sep 20, 2008

Welcome to the Forum.

There are some 18 'Black Fives' preserved on various heritage railways in the UK, including the North Yorkshire Moors, Llangollan, East Lancashire, National Railway Museum, Seven Valley Railway and Midland Railway Butterley.

If you go to http://www.heritagerailways.com you will find links to all the above railway's web-sites and will find photos on most of them.

Several books have been written about the Black Fives because they were a numerous and well-liked loco, and a look at Amazon or Ian Allan (www.ianallanpublishing.com) should give you a few titles to consider looking at.

Regards,
John Webb

7113 · Sep 22, 2008

Welcome indeed,

you will find that "black 5" is only the tip of the iceberg as far as nicknames for locos go, still any help and I feel sure we will be able to help.

Regards

Saint Johnstoun · Sep 26, 2008

Can I recommend the LMS Loco Profile series by Wild Swan. They have everything you want to know about Black Fives.

Coming from Perth where at one time Perth Shed (63A) had an allocation of 64 of the beasts I have a great regard for them and have seven running on my OO layout.

I can post drawings if you desire or a PM with your email will enable me to forward a ZIP with all the OO scale Black Five variations I have covered in my graphics.

Madkitten · Sep 26, 2008

They are also completly restoring a black 5 at the watercress line ( mid hants ) in southern england http://www.watercressline.co.uk/

here is the link to its restoration if you are interested!

http://www.watercressline.co.uk/b5app.htm

hope it helps

Nikki : )

Pelle · Sep 27, 2008

QUOTE (Pelle @ 20 Sep 2008, 12:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As I am rather new in BR modelling and information in Austria is not very easy to get, I am wondering what a Black Five is (I have seen pictures of locomotives with different numers).
Is there anyone who can explain that?
Thank you
Pelle

xx

John H-T · Sep 27, 2008

QUOTE (Pelle @ 20 Sep 2008, 11:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As I am rather new in BR modelling and information in Austria is not very easy to get, I am wondering what a Black Five is (I have seen pictures of locomotives with different numers).
Is there anyone who can explain that?
Thank you
Pelle

The LMS Stanier Class 5 is quite simply an icon. It was used all over Britain. It did whatever it was asked to do. It was the best loco of its type! (see below) :Mixed Traffic 4-6-0. It lasted right to the last day of BR steam to play a leading role in the 15 guineas special (3 of them).

It was so good that they developed it into the BR Standard Class 5 which was even better!

The preserved Class 5's continue to turn in stunning performances on the main line and on Heritage Railways.

John Webb · Sep 29, 2008

Here's a 'Black Five', although it is a 5inch gauge model in this case. (Seen at the St Albans Model Engineering Society's annual exhibition last weekend.)

Regards,
John Webb

bike2steam · Sep 30, 2008

QUOTE (John H-T @ 27 Sep 2008, 22:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The LMS Stanier Class 5 is quite simply an icon. It was used all over Britain. It did whatever it was asked to do. It was the best loco of its type! (see below) :Mixed Traffic 4-6-0. It lasted right to the last day of BR steam to play a leading role in the 15 guineas special (3 of them).
The preserved Class 5's continue to turn in stunning performances on the main line and on Heritage Railways.

Yep so good, even Southern drivers preferred them over their own 'home grown' locos.
Paul M.

John H-T · Sep 30, 2008

QUOTE (John Webb @ 29 Sep 2008, 22:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Here's a 'Black Five', although it is a 5inch gauge model in this case. (Seen at the St Albans Model Engineering Society's annual exhibition last weekend.)

Regards,
John Webb

Wow John what a superb model. Thanks for posting the photo.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

John Webb · Oct 1, 2008

My pleasure - it certainly looked good and I remembered Pelle's posting and thought it appropriate to go with this thread, so grabbed a picture.

Regards,
John Webb

Ozzie21 · Oct 1, 2008

There is an excellent DvD available from Cine Rail railway videos called "Black Five , Jack of all Trades" A fair bit of history and a lot of excellent film footage both old and new.
The web site is http://www.cinerail.com/

Regards
Charles Emerson
Queensland
Australia

QUOTE (Pelle @ 20 Sep 2008, 21:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>As I am rather new in BR modelling and information in Austria is not very easy to get, I am wondering what a Black Five is (I have seen pictures of locomotives with different numers).
Is there anyone who can explain that?
Thank you
Pelle

neil_s_wood · Oct 1, 2008

QUOTE (John Webb @ 30 Sep 2008, 07:15) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Here's a 'Black Five', although it is a 5inch gauge model in this case. (Seen at the St Albans Model Engineering Society's annual exhibition last weekend.)

Regards,
John Webb
Some lovely models in that picture John

John Webb · Oct 1, 2008

There was a very wide range of models on display - the ones above were actually on a 'guest' stand of the North London Society of Model Engineers. They have a steam running track near St Albans and a couple of miles from where I live, so they are neighbours, as it were.

Have a look at http://vmphoto.photobox.co.uk/album/70387016 for some more pics.

Regards,
John Webb

neil_s_wood · Oct 1, 2008

QUOTE (John Webb @ 2 Oct 2008, 08:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There was a very wide range of models on display - the ones above were actually on a 'guest' stand of the North London Society of Model Engineers. They have a steam running track near St Albans and a couple of miles from where I live, so they are neighbours, as it were.

Have a look at http://vmphoto.photobox.co.uk/album/70387016 for some more pics.

Regards,
John Webb
Thanks for the link John. I particularly liked some of the ships. Another interest of mine.

John Webb · Oct 2, 2008

My pleasure! They even had a 'pond' outside with radio-controlled boats chugging round, not far from the passenger carrying railway. The venue was one of our local schools, by the way. Besides the two halls with various boat, train and steam models there was a third smaller hall with Meccano models and related exhibits. And on the playing field at the back of the school they were flying model planes, so there were few people not catered for!

Regards,
John

7113 · Oct 2, 2008

Sounds like a good day could be had by all.

Regards

Pelle · Oct 3, 2008

QUOTE (dwb @ 20 Sep 2008, 12:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>A "Black Five" is an LMS locomotive with a power classification of 5 which carried a black livery. Power classes ranged from 1 to 9 (Not sure about 9 for the LMS but certainly for the BR period). It had a 4-6-0 wheel arrangement. The LMS had other 4-6-0 locomotives such as the "Scots" which were class 6 and Jubilees which were originally 5XP and carried a crimson livery - ie not black (at least before the war).

This Wikipedia article will get you started. There is also a site dedicated to the Jubilees.

David
Thank you very much. I have to admit, that I have never heard about those power classifications before.
After reading your reply it looks like I have to purchase some LMS stock in the very near future (although in OO scale only...).
Thanks
Pelle

dwb · Oct 3, 2008

QUOTE After reading your reply it looks like I have to purchase some LMS stock in the very near future (although in OO scale only...).

There are a couple of reviews of some OO scale LMS models (in British Rail condition) on the Forum. You can read them via these links:-

Ex-LNWR - then LMS - Super D 0-8-0 tender freight locomotive

Ex-LMS - Jubilee 4-6-0 tender passenger locomotive

Ex-LMS Rebuilt Royal Scot 4-6-0 tender passenger locomotive

Ex-LMS "Mickey Mouse" class 2 2-6-0 tender mixed traffic locomotive

Enjoy.
David

Black Five

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