QUOTE (rusty116 @ 11 Feb 2009, 18:04)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Has anyone compared the original Triang Blue Pullman against the current R4310 modern coaching stock, does the colour match?
Could they be used as a substitute for centre cars considering the price of secondhand triang pullmans on EBAY ?
Hi rusty,
Over the 40+ intervening years, I doubt the shades of blue would match between the Hornby and Triang models. As to whether they are interchangeable, colour is far from being the key issue. Four different types of parlour and kitchen cars with no less than three body profiles were designed and built as integral elements of the original Blue Pullman (BP) units, along with two types of motor car, as follows:
- Type 1 - motor car, 1st class, with toilet
- Type 2 - motor car, 2nd class, no toilet
- Type 3 - parlour 2nd, with one powered bogie (all parlours and kitchens had toilets)
- Type 4 - kitchen 1st, with one powered bogie
- Type 5 - kitchen 1st
- Type 6 - parlour 1st
Meanwhile, the Mk1 and Mk2 vehicles as used in the modern charter train were standard BR types found in various loco-hauled trains. Although a Mk2 is vaguely reminiscent of the 1st class type 6 BP parlours in terms of their window shape, they're very different side-by-side, as seen here:
The 2nd class type 3 parlours had seven windows, but they were much narrower than a Mk2's. There are many other differences, such as dimensions, wrap-round doors vs the inward opening Pullman style, underfloor equipment, roof features and the different bogies.
There's also the matter of which type of BP set you're after. Triang only made two vehicles - the type 6 parlour 1st and the type 2 motor car. Type 2s were used for Western Region (WR) eight-car sets that ran between Paddington and South Wales. In contrast, the London Midland (LMR) sets used between London, Birmingham and Wolverhampton were six-car all-first-class trains. The consists, in vehicle types, were as follows:
- WR: [ 2 ]-[ 3 ]-[ 5 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 5 ]-[ 3 ]-[ 2 ]
- LMR: [ 1 ]-[ 4 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 4 ]-[ 1 ]
So, if you take your lead from the Triang motor car as made, you'd need to make up four other vehicles for the type 3 and 5 cars to get your WR set, which at eight cars would be pretty long for most 1:76 layouts! In contrast, for a LMR set you'd 'only' need to adapt the motor cars and fabricate two type 4 kitchen cars. Using the Mk1 in the Hornby set would be plain incorrect, and you really need catering vehicles, so it's worth the effort. As regards cost, you could look for tatty Triang bodyshells, with a view to adapting and refurbishing them. It's also worth noting that the chunky Triang motor bogie is, visually completely wrong, and technically probably getting on a bit!
It really depends on the level of realism you're after, and all that said, the Mk2 could be an easy step to a good looking freelance model. If you do decide to do some conversion, I must recommend the book
'Blue Pullman' by Kevin Robertson, in Kestrel Railway Books (isbn 0954485963).
Bogies:
Chris Leigh Models (address only), maybe through
Blacksmith Models (scroll down)
Brass window inserts:
Southern Pride Models
Good examples of conversion job:
Westford layout (scroll down again)
Good luck!
Tom
