Blue Pullman, old and new

QUOTE (rusty116 @ 11 Feb 2009, 18:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Has anyone compared the original Triang Blue Pullman against the current R4310 modern coaching stock, does the colour match?
Could they be used as a substitute for centre cars considering the price of secondhand triang pullmans on EBAY ?

Hi rusty,

Over the 40+ intervening years, I doubt the shades of blue would match between the Hornby and Triang models. As to whether they are interchangeable, colour is far from being the key issue. Four different types of parlour and kitchen cars with no less than three body profiles were designed and built as integral elements of the original Blue Pullman (BP) units, along with two types of motor car, as follows:

• Type 1 - motor car, 1st class, with toilet
• Type 2 - motor car, 2nd class, no toilet
• Type 3 - parlour 2nd, with one powered bogie (all parlours and kitchens had toilets)
• Type 4 - kitchen 1st, with one powered bogie
• Type 5 - kitchen 1st
• Type 6 - parlour 1st

Meanwhile, the Mk1 and Mk2 vehicles as used in the modern charter train were standard BR types found in various loco-hauled trains. Although a Mk2 is vaguely reminiscent of the 1st class type 6 BP parlours in terms of their window shape, they're very different side-by-side, as seen here:



The 2nd class type 3 parlours had seven windows, but they were much narrower than a Mk2's. There are many other differences, such as dimensions, wrap-round doors vs the inward opening Pullman style, underfloor equipment, roof features and the different bogies.

There's also the matter of which type of BP set you're after. Triang only made two vehicles - the type 6 parlour 1st and the type 2 motor car. Type 2s were used for Western Region (WR) eight-car sets that ran between Paddington and South Wales. In contrast, the London Midland (LMR) sets used between London, Birmingham and Wolverhampton were six-car all-first-class trains. The consists, in vehicle types, were as follows:

• WR: [ 2 ]-[ 3 ]-[ 5 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 5 ]-[ 3 ]-[ 2 ]
• LMR: [ 1 ]-[ 4 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 4 ]-[ 1 ]

So, if you take your lead from the Triang motor car as made, you'd need to make up four other vehicles for the type 3 and 5 cars to get your WR set, which at eight cars would be pretty long for most 1:76 layouts! In contrast, for a LMR set you'd 'only' need to adapt the motor cars and fabricate two type 4 kitchen cars. Using the Mk1 in the Hornby set would be plain incorrect, and you really need catering vehicles, so it's worth the effort. As regards cost, you could look for tatty Triang bodyshells, with a view to adapting and refurbishing them. It's also worth noting that the chunky Triang motor bogie is, visually completely wrong, and technically probably getting on a bit!

It really depends on the level of realism you're after, and all that said, the Mk2 could be an easy step to a good looking freelance model. If you do decide to do some conversion, I must recommend the book 'Blue Pullman' by Kevin Robertson, in Kestrel Railway Books (isbn 0954485963).

Bogies: Chris Leigh Models (address only), maybe through Blacksmith Models (scroll down)
Brass window inserts: Southern Pride Models
Good examples of conversion job: Westford layout (scroll down again)

Good luck!

Tom

QUOTE (34C @ 19 Feb 2009, 10:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>[...]
If the proposed combination pleases you enough as an impression of the train, then go for it.
[...]

My sentiments exactly!

How about using the Southern Pride brass inserts with some Mk2 bodyshells, to get something closer to the Pullman vehicles without hacking up Triang stuff? They're only £2-£4 per vehicle.

Oh, and I was wrong -- the 8-car Western sets went to Birmingham and Wolverhampton too. The 6-cars on LMR ran between London and Manchester.

Cheers,

Tom

At the end of the day you can do as much or as little as you want to replicate the formation you want.
Remember one thing "Its your layout and you can do what you want"

Kind regards
Paul

QUOTE (madon37s @ 21 Feb 2009, 08:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>At the end of the day you can do as much or as little as you want to replicate the formation you want.
Remember one thing "Its your layout and you can do what you want"

Kind regards
Paul
Exactly...this is what I did on monday last, I used "deltic" to pull my rake of 3 mk2 blue pullman coaches from the Hornby set R1093 "the blue pullman" round the club layout. (Dionysis -FM Rial class 47 has been chipped to run on dcc and the club is still using DC)
Steve