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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone compared the original Triang Blue Pullman against the current R4310 modern coaching stock, does the colour match?
Could they be used as a substitute for centre cars considering the price of secondhand triang pullmans on EBAY ?
 

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QUOTE (rusty116 @ 11 Feb 2009, 18:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Has anyone compared the original Triang Blue Pullman against the current R4310 modern coaching stock, does the colour match?
Could they be used as a substitute for centre cars considering the price of secondhand triang pullmans on EBAY ?

Hi rusty,

Over the 40+ intervening years, I doubt the shades of blue would match between the Hornby and Triang models. As to whether they are interchangeable, colour is far from being the key issue. Four different types of parlour and kitchen cars with no less than three body profiles were designed and built as integral elements of the original Blue Pullman (BP) units, along with two types of motor car, as follows:
  • Type 1 - motor car, 1st class, with toilet
  • Type 2 - motor car, 2nd class, no toilet
  • Type 3 - parlour 2nd, with one powered bogie (all parlours and kitchens had toilets)
  • Type 4 - kitchen 1st, with one powered bogie
  • Type 5 - kitchen 1st
  • Type 6 - parlour 1st
Meanwhile, the Mk1 and Mk2 vehicles as used in the modern charter train were standard BR types found in various loco-hauled trains. Although a Mk2 is vaguely reminiscent of the 1st class type 6 BP parlours in terms of their window shape, they're very different side-by-side, as seen here:



The 2nd class type 3 parlours had seven windows, but they were much narrower than a Mk2's. There are many other differences, such as dimensions, wrap-round doors vs the inward opening Pullman style, underfloor equipment, roof features and the different bogies.

There's also the matter of which type of BP set you're after. Triang only made two vehicles - the type 6 parlour 1st and the type 2 motor car. Type 2s were used for Western Region (WR) eight-car sets that ran between Paddington and South Wales. In contrast, the London Midland (LMR) sets used between London, Birmingham and Wolverhampton were six-car all-first-class trains. The consists, in vehicle types, were as follows:
  • WR: [ 2 ]-[ 3 ]-[ 5 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 5 ]-[ 3 ]-[ 2 ]
  • LMR: [ 1 ]-[ 4 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 6 ]-[ 4 ]-[ 1 ]
So, if you take your lead from the Triang motor car as made, you'd need to make up four other vehicles for the type 3 and 5 cars to get your WR set, which at eight cars would be pretty long for most 1:76 layouts! In contrast, for a LMR set you'd 'only' need to adapt the motor cars and fabricate two type 4 kitchen cars. Using the Mk1 in the Hornby set would be plain incorrect, and you really need catering vehicles, so it's worth the effort. As regards cost, you could look for tatty Triang bodyshells, with a view to adapting and refurbishing them. It's also worth noting that the chunky Triang motor bogie is, visually completely wrong, and technically probably getting on a bit!

It really depends on the level of realism you're after, and all that said, the Mk2 could be an easy step to a good looking freelance model. If you do decide to do some conversion, I must recommend the book 'Blue Pullman' by Kevin Robertson, in Kestrel Railway Books (isbn 0954485963).

Bogies: Chris Leigh Models (address only), maybe through Blacksmith Models (scroll down)
Brass window inserts: Southern Pride Models
Good examples of conversion job: Westford layout (scroll down again)

Good luck!

Tom
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi,

Thanks for all the info.

I know I am never going to get a 100% correct formation, unless I find some vey well made kitmaster stock. But the aim is to get a 5 or 6 car set to give the right impression. ( I am not going to rivet count).

I have a decent Power and dummy power car, but only 1 original tralier, looking at the current prices of £40 ish per coach on ebay a 6 trailer set is going to cost £240. With some of the dubious descriptions and interpretations of the words "immaculate" & "mint" that I have seen used, buying and building a set that looks presentable is going to be a long and expensive process.

But if the current Mk11 coaches are the correct colour, and with just a respray of the roof to silver + some of the underframe boxes, perhaps a good impression could be made?
 

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Rusty,

If the proposed combination pleases you enough as an impression of the train, then go for it.

In similar vein with the earlier loco hauled Pullmans, Hornby don't currently produce the 1928 'Queen of Scots' cars to the current top standard. But by knocking about the flush sided K cars a little I get a more than passable representation, with an exterior finish superior to what I could achieve. Someone knowledgeable would recognise the inaccuracies: but the pleasing impression of a set of beautifully finished Pullmans behind an East Coast pacific is very satisfactorily obtained.
 

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QUOTE (34C @ 19 Feb 2009, 10:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>[...]
If the proposed combination pleases you enough as an impression of the train, then go for it.
[...]

My sentiments exactly!

How about using the Southern Pride brass inserts with some Mk2 bodyshells, to get something closer to the Pullman vehicles without hacking up Triang stuff? They're only £2-£4 per vehicle.

Oh, and I was wrong -- the 8-car Western sets went to Birmingham and Wolverhampton too. The 6-cars on LMR ran between London and Manchester.

Cheers,

Tom
 

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At the end of the day you can do as much or as little as you want to replicate the formation you want.
Remember one thing "Its your layout and you can do what you want"


Kind regards
Paul
 

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QUOTE (madon37s @ 21 Feb 2009, 08:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>At the end of the day you can do as much or as little as you want to replicate the formation you want.
Remember one thing "Its your layout and you can do what you want"


Kind regards
Paul
Exactly...this is what I did on monday last, I used "deltic" to pull my rake of 3 mk2 blue pullman coaches from the Hornby set R1093 "the blue pullman" round the club layout. (Dionysis -FM Rial class 47 has been chipped to run on dcc and the club is still using DC)
Steve
 

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QUOTE (wolverton bloomer @ 22 Feb 2009, 12:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Exactly...this is what I did on monday last, I used "deltic" to pull my rake of 3 mk2 blue pullman coaches from the Hornby set R1093 "the blue pullman" round the club layout. (Dionysis -FM Rial class 47 has been chipped to run on dcc and the club is still using DC)
Steve

Well, the newer Blue Pullman was a charter train so the world's your oyster when it comes to haulage 'what ifs'.

I've always quite fancied doing a 2+6 HST in Blue Pullman livery actually, or GW choc+cream with green power cars.

Cheers,

Tom
 

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QUOTE (Tom Fernley @ 22 Feb 2009, 14:09) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've always quite fancied doing a 2+6 HST in Blue Pullman livery actually, or GW choc+cream with green power cars.

Cheers,

Tom

Snap,
There's a good photoshop picture of an HST power car in GWR green with the Choc/Cream of the coaches over the guards compartment at the rear on Fictitious Liveries
http://fictitiousliveries.fotopic.net/p26299687.html
Some other cracking stuff as well.

Andii
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well some of the livereis work, HST in GWR green, class 52 in First GW.

steve - surely your DCC equiped Dionysis -FM Rial class 47 will run on DC as well, most makes of DCC chips allow this.

Rob
 

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Never tried it!
 
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