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Brawa Coaches
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I don't think there is such a thing as an objective review. A reviewer will always take one side or another.
These reviews are of models that are bought by the reviewer. So first-off, the reviewer wanted the model. Secondly, the reviewer paid his own money for the model and this makes it difficult to slate the model - as that implies that the reviewer mis-spent his cash to begin with.
If you look at Pat Hammond's site, he gets sent models for review fem a few manufacturers. Nothing against Pat personally, but as he is getting items that he may or may not want or like himself, the reviews often are a bit flat. He does however use the information in another way for his books - he describes the development of the models and incorporates historical information. Most of the time he is not looking at each model and giving his opinion.
I used to go out once or twice to the cinema as a youngster. We didn't have TV adverts for new movies as we have now, so we used to read the movie review in the paper. There were 4 or 5 people doing the reviews - each with their own style of critique. You soon learnt how to interpret their writing and choose which movie to go to based on their review.
Likewise, on these various forums that we all read, try and understand where the reviewer is coming from; pick-up what he likes and dislikes; then base your final opinion on the information and your idea of the reviewer.
These reviews are of models that are bought by the reviewer. So first-off, the reviewer wanted the model. Secondly, the reviewer paid his own money for the model and this makes it difficult to slate the model - as that implies that the reviewer mis-spent his cash to begin with.
If you look at Pat Hammond's site, he gets sent models for review fem a few manufacturers. Nothing against Pat personally, but as he is getting items that he may or may not want or like himself, the reviews often are a bit flat. He does however use the information in another way for his books - he describes the development of the models and incorporates historical information. Most of the time he is not looking at each model and giving his opinion.
I used to go out once or twice to the cinema as a youngster. We didn't have TV adverts for new movies as we have now, so we used to read the movie review in the paper. There were 4 or 5 people doing the reviews - each with their own style of critique. You soon learnt how to interpret their writing and choose which movie to go to based on their review.
Likewise, on these various forums that we all read, try and understand where the reviewer is coming from; pick-up what he likes and dislikes; then base your final opinion on the information and your idea of the reviewer.
QUOTE (dwilson9 @ 22 Nov 2006, 09:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I'm having trouble coming to terms with such a one sided review!
I thought the review was very reasonable, although to compare a Brawa coach with one from Hornby is possibly a little unfair to Hornby as the two manufacturers are aiming at very different markets. I have had some experience with Brawa an generally speaking have found their products to be excellent.
Regards
John
I thought the review was very reasonable, although to compare a Brawa coach with one from Hornby is possibly a little unfair to Hornby as the two manufacturers are aiming at very different markets. I have had some experience with Brawa an generally speaking have found their products to be excellent.
Regards
John
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QUOTE although to compare a Brawa coach with one from Hornby is possibly a little unfair to Hornby as the two manufacturers are aiming at very different markets
I did actually say that in the review. Obviously Hornby and Brawa are in very different sales niches but the point of the comparison was to show what you get for the extra money should you consider coaches like these.
QUOTE I'm having trouble coming to terms with such a one sided review!
All reviews have a degree of bias as Doug has already covered regardless of how objective the reviewer will try to be. But that's not what you're comment was about though was it? This comment is motivated by responses given to dwilson9 on another thread on his views on German outline. You don't have to read it if you don't want to and given your views on German outline it's probably best you don't.
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Reviews are intended for people interested in a product, in this instance those interested in European outline, whether for buying or just out of general interest. If you don't like a product or in this case the nationality of a product why read the review when you know you are going to hate it anyway?
I did actually say that in the review. Obviously Hornby and Brawa are in very different sales niches but the point of the comparison was to show what you get for the extra money should you consider coaches like these.
QUOTE I'm having trouble coming to terms with such a one sided review!
All reviews have a degree of bias as Doug has already covered regardless of how objective the reviewer will try to be. But that's not what you're comment was about though was it? This comment is motivated by responses given to dwilson9 on another thread on his views on German outline. You don't have to read it if you don't want to and given your views on German outline it's probably best you don't.
Reviews are intended for people interested in a product, in this instance those interested in European outline, whether for buying or just out of general interest. If you don't like a product or in this case the nationality of a product why read the review when you know you are going to hate it anyway?
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I've read this review a couple of times and I don't think it is unfair to either company. I think it helps the person understand what the diferences are and helps them to understand what they would be getting for the extra bit of money leaving the decision to the buyer where it belongs. What could be wrong with that? To me it seems that except for a couple of areas mentioned you could not really quibble with either model.
I applaud Neil for taking the time for this valuable review. Having seen Brawa at the Nuremburg Toy Fair their stuff just looks so good. I just wish they made more in N - Scale.
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I applaud Neil for taking the time for this valuable review. Having seen Brawa at the Nuremburg Toy Fair their stuff just looks so good. I just wish they made more in N - Scale.
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QUOTE (Dennis David @ 23 Nov 2006, 06:00) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I've read this review a couple of times and I don't think it is unfair to either company. I think it helps the person understand what the diferences are and helps them to understand what they would be getting for the extra bit of money leaving the decision to the buyer where it belongs. What could be wrong with that? To me it seems that except for a couple of areas mentioned you could not really quibble with either model.
Exactly - I could not agree more, except to say that IMHO there is just that little bit "extra" with Brawa.
BTW - thanks for taking the time to produce & post the review Neil.
Exactly - I could not agree more, except to say that IMHO there is just that little bit "extra" with Brawa.
BTW - thanks for taking the time to produce & post the review Neil.
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No worries. I'm glad to see it's appreciated.
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I think the review is a fair one.
Brawa products are not cheap, but you do get value for money for what you buy.
Unlike some manufacturers, I personally dont think that you are paying any extra for the "brand name"
John
Brawa products are not cheap, but you do get value for money for what you buy.
Unlike some manufacturers, I personally dont think that you are paying any extra for the "brand name"
John
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QUOTE (john woodall @ 4 Feb 2008, 17:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think the review is a fair one.
John
**As do I, and I'd much rather read a review from someone with a little enthusiasm that a flat set of text from someone following a "formula". Neils comments mirror my own thoughts about Brawa - superbly done in general and a bit delicate in places.
However, I do think comment about size of detail is only valid if the items are the same scale and similar prototypes - Sorry Neil but it wasn't a good comparative choice - better to compare with Roco or something HO perhaps..... Or no comparison if apples for apples aint possible.
Some things I'd love to see on every review for everything:
wheel profile used
coupler type and mount (often added as a comment anyway)
back to back dimensions
for loco's always - reviewed after a short run in on each direction:
current draw (running light)
current draw (wheels slipping) *against a fixed stop on the track, not "stalled)
Regards, and thanks for a nice review
Richard
John
**As do I, and I'd much rather read a review from someone with a little enthusiasm that a flat set of text from someone following a "formula". Neils comments mirror my own thoughts about Brawa - superbly done in general and a bit delicate in places.
However, I do think comment about size of detail is only valid if the items are the same scale and similar prototypes - Sorry Neil but it wasn't a good comparative choice - better to compare with Roco or something HO perhaps..... Or no comparison if apples for apples aint possible.
Some things I'd love to see on every review for everything:
wheel profile used
coupler type and mount (often added as a comment anyway)
back to back dimensions
for loco's always - reviewed after a short run in on each direction:
current draw (running light)
current draw (wheels slipping) *against a fixed stop on the track, not "stalled)
Regards, and thanks for a nice review
Richard
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QUOTE (Richard Johnson @ 4 Feb 2008, 20:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However, I do think comment about size of detail is only valid if the items are the same scale and similar prototypes - Sorry Neil but it wasn't a good comparative choice - better to compare with Roco or something HO perhaps..... Or no comparison if apples for apples aint possible.
Richard
The reason I decided on Hornby for comarison was only because I thought this would be a product with a greater degree of familiarity to most readers and because I find the quality of Hornby coaches to be similar to Maerklin, Fleischmann, Roco (not Platin obviously). In retrospect I was probably naive in not anticipating the reaction I would get from some of the more extreme elements. You live and learn.
Richard
The reason I decided on Hornby for comarison was only because I thought this would be a product with a greater degree of familiarity to most readers and because I find the quality of Hornby coaches to be similar to Maerklin, Fleischmann, Roco (not Platin obviously). In retrospect I was probably naive in not anticipating the reaction I would get from some of the more extreme elements. You live and learn.
Hi, I had the misfortune to buy 2440 a week or so back and then find that you couldn't find the others in the set for love nor money. They really are nice and go well with the Brawa locos of the era (well the ONE I have is anyway). Checking through the new items it seems that they may have resurrected them as numbers 25212, 25213, 25214. Looking at the catalogue are they an exact match eg colour/livery?
thanks
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thanks
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Hi Simon,
I cant comment about whether the colour is an exact match, but there was some variation in coach colour in the 1920's any way.
In terms livery 45212 & 45213 are for Epoch IIb (1925-35)
45214 is for Epoch IIc (1935-1945)
I got a brawa coach last year and it is fine and looks good with coaches from Marklin, Trix, Fleischmann and Roco so colour is not an issue in trms of the green.
Cheers
John
I cant comment about whether the colour is an exact match, but there was some variation in coach colour in the 1920's any way.
In terms livery 45212 & 45213 are for Epoch IIb (1925-35)
45214 is for Epoch IIc (1935-1945)
I got a brawa coach last year and it is fine and looks good with coaches from Marklin, Trix, Fleischmann and Roco so colour is not an issue in trms of the green.
Cheers
John
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QUOTE (simonj @ 25 Jan 2009, 10:22) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks, how do you tell the difference between Epoch IIa,b,c etc? I can't see an Eagle motive on the lowest coach (Ep IIc)?
Yes, there is an eagle on the bottom one but it is different. It is a black eagle which has a swastika added to it. It also loses the gold circle behind it and is different from the previous eagle emblem. This is from the period when the Nazi's were in control. It is the same logo on the side of the BR06 in my signature.
Yes, there is an eagle on the bottom one but it is different. It is a black eagle which has a swastika added to it. It also loses the gold circle behind it and is different from the previous eagle emblem. This is from the period when the Nazi's were in control. It is the same logo on the side of the BR06 in my signature.
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Hi Simon,
Essentially Era II is split into 3 time bands
IIa 1920 -1925 Landerbahn nationalised and nationalisation implemented. It took the Bavarians a while to accept nationalisation. The new Fleischmann set 580905 is a classic. Lettered for the DRG but with Bavarian coat of arms on the wagons!
IIb 1920-1935 Nationalisation completed
IIc 1935-1945 the war years
Era IIa Rolling stock progressively repainted to brown for freight wagons and green for Passenger and baggage cars at major overhauls. Renumbered under DRG numbering plan and freight stock have Deutsche Reichsbahn on the side and passenger and baggage stock have the round shield at minor servicing.
Era IIb All rolling stock should now have been brown for freight and green for passenger. Some specific passenger trains did not follow this eg the Rheingold, but the majority did. Dinning cars were red. Passenger stock had the round shield on it
Era IIc Passenger stock no longer had the round shield but had the eagle with outstretched wings. Some freight wagons now have DR instead of Deutsche Reichsbahn
This is a pretty simple and basic over view but I hope it is of assistance. As with anything the dates are not totally fixed. but I would not have expected to see era I stock still running in its original paint scheme passed 1928. Similarly stock in era IIb colour schemes did appear from 1920. The big determinant was when it was serviced. I think that Era IIc while not happening overnight at least had the passenger stock re shielded with 12 months or so. There are some subtle difference in freight stock numbering DR vs Deutsche Reichsbahn on their side, but wagons only got the DR when they were built, serviced or taken over (Austria, Poland France etc), so even at war end there was still German freight stock with Deutsche Reichsbahn running.
Hope this helps
John
Essentially Era II is split into 3 time bands
IIa 1920 -1925 Landerbahn nationalised and nationalisation implemented. It took the Bavarians a while to accept nationalisation. The new Fleischmann set 580905 is a classic. Lettered for the DRG but with Bavarian coat of arms on the wagons!
IIb 1920-1935 Nationalisation completed
IIc 1935-1945 the war years
Era IIa Rolling stock progressively repainted to brown for freight wagons and green for Passenger and baggage cars at major overhauls. Renumbered under DRG numbering plan and freight stock have Deutsche Reichsbahn on the side and passenger and baggage stock have the round shield at minor servicing.
Era IIb All rolling stock should now have been brown for freight and green for passenger. Some specific passenger trains did not follow this eg the Rheingold, but the majority did. Dinning cars were red. Passenger stock had the round shield on it
Era IIc Passenger stock no longer had the round shield but had the eagle with outstretched wings. Some freight wagons now have DR instead of Deutsche Reichsbahn
This is a pretty simple and basic over view but I hope it is of assistance. As with anything the dates are not totally fixed. but I would not have expected to see era I stock still running in its original paint scheme passed 1928. Similarly stock in era IIb colour schemes did appear from 1920. The big determinant was when it was serviced. I think that Era IIc while not happening overnight at least had the passenger stock re shielded with 12 months or so. There are some subtle difference in freight stock numbering DR vs Deutsche Reichsbahn on their side, but wagons only got the DR when they were built, serviced or taken over (Austria, Poland France etc), so even at war end there was still German freight stock with Deutsche Reichsbahn running.
Hope this helps
John
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