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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

I'm a complete novice, so forgive me if this is a daft question!

My next door neighbour's trying to find spares for his Brawa BR 65.10 steam locomotive. He's not on t'internet, so I'm trying to help out.

He's lost some tiny coupling rod screws, and can't find replacements anywhere.

Is there a UK supplier for these parts, or would we need to go direct to Brawa?

Many thanks,

Ian
 

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QUOTE (bondy @ 21 Nov 2007, 17:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi

I'm a complete novice, so forgive me if this is a daft question!

My next door neighbour's trying to find spares for his Brawa BR 65.10 steam locomotive. He's not on t'internet, so I'm trying to help out.

He's lost some tiny coupling rod screws, and can't find replacements anywhere.

Is there a UK supplier for these parts, or would we need to go direct to Brawa?

Many thanks,

Ian

You could try Brawa direct - I returned we returned a faulty locomotive to them & we got it back repaired, almost by return.

Modelmasters import Brawa, so they could be worth a try.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi

Many thanks for that - Modelmasters sounds like a great place to try.

I've emailed Brawa now, so hopefully they'll be able to help - may be expensive for a couple of screws, but I expect that this is one of the hazards of working with all these tiny components.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quick update...

No joy from Brawa yet, they've not replied. But I've mailed modelmasters to see if they can help or point us in the right direction.

I think the things we're looking for are actually tiny hex headed bolts, so they just may be of a standard metric size and available universally.

If I get hold of the right bits, I'll update here, just incase anyone else is looking for these easy-to-lose bits.

I've spoken to my neighbour again, and it turns out that a wheel came off/bent as the locomtive was moving, the rod detached and the bolts must've dropped out. I'm guessing the bolts came loose.

I'd be tempted to fix the new bolts firmly in place with a thread locking adhesive, if we ever find any!!!!
 

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Hi all,

Seasons greetings to everyone!

Just a quick update - Brawa have replied, and will send us the required parts. The problem is the cost - it will be around EUR 18,00 and they want it transferred to their bank account. This will cost us about twice as much again! I've asked if there's another way to pay, but no reply. I'm guessing that they will sending a kit, or module containing all of the necessary components, plus the bolts.

Having done a quick web search, and found some 19th Century loco operating manuals, perhaps the correct term for the missing component is a side rod crank pin?

It's not economical to buy this sort of thing direct, but would be OK for larger purchases or repairs.

Unless my neighbour's UK shop will be more helpful, I'm going to give it one more shot!!!

The approximate bolt dimensions are in mm
  • 2.5mm across the hex head
  • 4mm long
  • 1mm thread size
After the hex head, there's short cylindrical shaft then the smaller diameter threaded part of the bolt.

I guess that Brawa but this component in, probably in the 000s for a few Euros. Surely these bolts are used elsewhere, perhaps not just on model engines?

So, if you can help me to find a supplier of this item in the UK, please let me know - even if it's contact details for a repairer that may have these bits in stock, or will be able to help at a more reasonable cost?

I'll try and post some pics....

Many thanks,

Ian

The bolt...



And the engine - with the missing bolt, located just to the right of the hub of the rearmost driven wheel.

 

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Bondy - did you not try Modelmasters as I suggested ?

Even if they had to order the screw it could be on their next delivery thus avoiding the shipping. Our experience of Modelmasters is very good - if they say they have ordered something then they actually have done so.
 

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Airfix used to send spare parts directly from France for free. It's called customer service.
Did your next door neighbour buy this loco new and if so, how long ago? In all my 43 years of railway modelling I've never had coupling rod screw come off. Maybe the loco was poorly manufacured.
 

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Looking through my "small" junk box for something else I found a couple of screws of about the same diamentions. They have slotted heads rather than hexagon but they may get you out of trouble. If you want to try them send me a PM with your address & i will pop them in the post for you, after Christmas though - I've just received a Roco loco bought off eBay that although very well packed looks like it was dropped from a great height !

Hope this helps.
 

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Thanks for the replies everyone.

Brian - I tried Modelmaster as you suggested, but got no reply at all to my email. At least Brawa replied!

Maybe the mail went astray, or it was such a low value request that they didn't want to go into it. I'll certainly have another go in the New Year though.

Poliss - Brawa offered to send the part, but their payment methods don't suit the ordinary buyer - an internation bank transfer would cost me a lot of money. I agree about customer service - it's all about profit nowadays, and the customer pays through the nose.

I don't think the model's that old - the retailer should be more helpful, really, but I don't think they want to do such trifling repairs.

From reading the old manuals on the web, it sounds as though crank pins sometimes failed on the full size locos - the advice was not to continue without a side rod, as that would cause even more damage!!! Fascinating stuff.

Maybe we can make our own repair for this, without the original component?

Anyway, I'll see what Billy (my neighbour with the Brawa models) wants to do, and we'll sort something out.

Once again thanks everyone for you kind help and advice, happy Christmas and New Year!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 22 Dec 2007, 20:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Looking through my "small" junk box for something else I found a couple of screws of about the same diamentions. They have slotted heads rather than hexagon but they may get you out of trouble. If you want to try them send me a PM with your address & i will pop them in the post for you, after Christmas though - I've just received a Roco loco bought off eBay that although very well packed looks like it was dropped from a great height !

Hope this helps.

Thank you Brian, that is a very kind offer. It's just the one screw we need - don't want to take too many of your spares, as you never know when you may need them!

Sorry to hear about that damaged loco - very disappointing when that happens - hope you can sort it.

All the best,

Ian
 

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QUOTE a.) has his engines made in Asia and b.) stocks spare parts for them. Then we can talk.

Maerklin, Trix, Hornby and Bachmann

Is that enough?
 

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QUOTE (72C @ 23 Dec 2007, 00:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Maerklin, Trix, Hornby and Bachmann

Is that enough?


Hornby and Bachmann stock spares? Maybe for their UK offerings, but most certainly not for their European HO offerings - which is the main reason for me to avoid them at any cost.

And I´m speaking/writing from my own experience. My dealer had a used, slightly damaged Liliput by Bachmann class IVh engine he´d sell me at a reduced price. I called Bachmann Liliput, reply was "sorry, no spares". My Rivarossi-Hornby E402 has been discussed ad nauseam - apparently, Hornby prefers to ignore Mails and phone calls, and when my dealer asked the Hornby representative at a show, he got the line "We don´t stock spare parts, so please return the engine for a refund!". He asked to get this in writing, and yep - he got a letter from Hornby Germany saying exactly the same thing. Friends avoid Arnold-Hornby for the same reason.

Do Bachmann and Hornby really have spares for their OO stuff, or is that just another urban legend?

Märklin and Trix are the same company, but with the Chinese manufactured stuff, you have to be lucky to get the parts you want.
 

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Me 26-06, you said "We´ve had this kind of discussion before; point me to any manufacturer who a.) has his engines made in Asia and b.) stocks spare parts for them. Then we can talk." Well, here's a quote straight from the Brawa website.

"Long-term dedication to detail. Our generous service concept also contributes to ensuring that you can enjoy your BRAWA models for a long time to come. For example, we hold a comprehensive range of replacement parts in stock and our customers are able to order even the smallest parts."

I can see no reason why a screw, that will cost less than a penny, should be sent by insured delivery. Asking a customer to pay over £26.00 is just an insult. Who in their right mind would ever buy another Brawa product when this is the way they treat their customers?
Bondy, tell your neighbour that's it's probably cheaper to buy a complete locomotive from Ebay.
 

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There was a disaster where a coupling rod came loose, dug into the track and derailed a passenger train, then another train, coal I think, ploughed into the wreck. The cause, as I remember it, was a major design flaw with a nut that was fitted underneath the fitting instead of on top. Vibration worked the nut loose and the inevitable happened. If anyone can remember the details please add them. I read about it in a library book around 10 years ago. The loco was quite modern, a Britannia class maybe, but I can't be sure.
 

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QUOTE (bondy @ 23 Dec 2007, 05:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thank you Brian, that is a very kind offer. It's just the one screw we need - don't want to take too many of your spares, as you never know when you may need them!

Sorry to hear about that damaged loco - very disappointing when that happens - hope you can sort it.

All the best,

Ian

***Hello Ian

I'm sorry you have had no luck - I stayed silent with my fingers crossed that you'd get what you need from the loco mfr, but looks like thats not happening sadly (mind you I don't think other brands are much better now no matter where they are based - most are a wee bit slow / less than perfect when it comes to spares!)

We stock micro screws (self tappers from 1mmx3mm up) and micro bolts (1.4mm is smallest though) - a pack of 48 assorted nuts and 48 bolts is only $A9.95 and an assorted pack of 48 micro screws only $7.95 but we are along way away in Australia (post about $A4 for airmail).

However - there should be a low cost answer locally for you. (I'm assuming you guessed the size right of course - 1mm is quite small and hard to get exactly right without a micrometer)

If you have no luck, then try a 14BA bolt with a tiny eyelet on the shank to provide the bearing surface for the connecting rod.

Mainly trains in Watchet, UK stock these, If not listed as nuts and bolts then they are probably listed as crank pins and eyelets/bushes for Alan Gibson driving wheels. 14BA and 1mm are very close in size.

they will be too long but are easily cut and cleaned up with a fine file. They will be quite low cost.

Kind regards and very best wishes for the Christmas season

Richard Johnson
DCCconcepts
 

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QUOTE Maybe for their UK offerings, but most certainly not for their European HO offerings - which is the main reason for me to avoid them at any cost.
In that case you should be more specific before making a statement, btw no one is forcing you to buy Hornby.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Many thanks for that Richard.

It's certainly worth considering. I was thinking that there must be similarly sized screws or bolts used for other applications. My collection of fixings is for building work, so rather too big!

I did make very rough measurements for the bolt. I've actually got a micrometer, but it's an old imperial one that my late Grandfather used in the 1940s. I could easily convert the measurements to metric to get within a reasonable tolerance.

Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
QUOTE (poliss @ 23 Dec 2007, 02:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There was a disaster where a coupling rod came loose, dug into the track and derailed a passenger train, then another train, coal I think, ploughed into the wreck. The cause, as I remember it, was a major design flaw with a nut that was fitted underneath the fitting instead of on top. Vibration worked the nut loose and the inevitable happened. If anyone can remember the details please add them. I read about it in a library book around 10 years ago. The loco was quite modern, a Britannia class maybe, but I can't be sure.

Here's a snippet I found on t'web:

Retrospective and critical

Tuplin's comparitive assessment that although an immense amount of information about design and performance of major and minor components of British locomotives was studied in preparing the BR standard designs, and although the indisputably expert officials responsible for them were on their mettle to avoid any ground for criticism of them by the other technical experts of the four former railway groups, defects nevertheless showed up. Although the boilers of the 'Britannias' were originally fitted with steam collectors specially intended to minimize the possibility of picking up water besides steam, this happened soon after 'Britannias' went into service and cylinder-ends were knocked out and pistons broken by trapped water. Later on, coupling-rods were broken when driving wheels slipped at high running speeds. In this condition resonant rotational vibration of coupled wheels and coupling-rods could produce so great a compressive load in a rod as to cause it to fail by bending horizontally away from the wheels. This it did because its I-section was very weak in that direction. The operation of forming the I-section by milling away material from a rectangular slab threw away 80 per cent of its strength in this direction. The remedy was to omit the milling operation and to use the rectangular section. The Great Western had found this out in 1906. Slide-bars in 'Britannias' were attached in a way that made it difficult to tighten the securing nuts properly. This was altered after loss of a bottom slide-bar from a 'Britannia' led to failure of the piston rod and connecting-rod, which fell and deformed the adjacent track at just the moment that caused a train on it to be derailed into the coaches behind the Britannia' (Settle, January 2lst, 1960, Bib. 33). Less drastic, but very disappointing after the comfort of the enginemen had been specially considered in laying out the controls in the cab, was the circumstance that the noise in the cabs was much worse.

British Railways standard classes
 

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Fleischmann used this type of screw on some of their older models.
Can dbclass50 help?
I think Brawa produced them and supplied them to other manufactures, as they did with electrical components?
I could be wrong, but its worth a try.

Merry christmas.

David
 
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