[bondy]

Hi

I'm a complete novice, so forgive me if this is a daft question!

My next door neighbour's trying to find spares for his Brawa BR 65.10 steam locomotive. He's not on t'internet, so I'm trying to help out.

He's lost some tiny coupling rod screws, and can't find replacements anywhere.

Is there a UK supplier for these parts, or would we need to go direct to Brawa?

Many thanks,

Ian

 

[bondy]

Hi

Many thanks for that - Modelmasters sounds like a great place to try.

I've emailed Brawa now, so hopefully they'll be able to help - may be expensive for a couple of screws, but I expect that this is one of the hazards of working with all these tiny components.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Ian

 

[bondy]

Quick update...

No joy from Brawa yet, they've not replied. But I've mailed modelmasters to see if they can help or point us in the right direction.

I think the things we're looking for are actually tiny hex headed bolts, so they just may be of a standard metric size and available universally.

If I get hold of the right bits, I'll update here, just incase anyone else is looking for these easy-to-lose bits.

I've spoken to my neighbour again, and it turns out that a wheel came off/bent as the locomtive was moving, the rod detached and the bolts must've dropped out. I'm guessing the bolts came loose.

I'd be tempted to fix the new bolts firmly in place with a thread locking adhesive, if we ever find any!!!!

 

[bondy]

Hi all,

Seasons greetings to everyone!

Just a quick update - Brawa have replied, and will send us the required parts. The problem is the cost - it will be around EUR 18,00 and they want it transferred to their bank account. This will cost us about twice as much again! I've asked if there's another way to pay, but no reply. I'm guessing that they will sending a kit, or module containing all of the necessary components, plus the bolts.

Having done a quick web search, and found some 19th Century loco operating manuals, perhaps the correct term for the missing component is a side rod crank pin?

It's not economical to buy this sort of thing direct, but would be OK for larger purchases or repairs.

Unless my neighbour's UK shop will be more helpful, I'm going to give it one more shot!!!

The approximate bolt dimensions are in mm

• 2.5mm across the hex head
• 4mm long
• 1mm thread size

After the hex head, there's short cylindrical shaft then the smaller diameter threaded part of the bolt.

I guess that Brawa but this component in, probably in the 000s for a few Euros. Surely these bolts are used elsewhere, perhaps not just on model engines?

So, if you can help me to find a supplier of this item in the UK, please let me know - even if it's contact details for a repairer that may have these bits in stock, or will be able to help at a more reasonable cost?

I'll try and post some pics....

Many thanks,

Ian

The bolt...

And the engine - with the missing bolt, located just to the right of the hub of the rearmost driven wheel.

 

[bondy]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Brian - I tried Modelmaster as you suggested, but got no reply at all to my email. At least Brawa replied!

Maybe the mail went astray, or it was such a low value request that they didn't want to go into it. I'll certainly have another go in the New Year though.

Poliss - Brawa offered to send the part, but their payment methods don't suit the ordinary buyer - an internation bank transfer would cost me a lot of money. I agree about customer service - it's all about profit nowadays, and the customer pays through the nose.

I don't think the model's that old - the retailer should be more helpful, really, but I don't think they want to do such trifling repairs.

From reading the old manuals on the web, it sounds as though crank pins sometimes failed on the full size locos - the advice was not to continue without a side rod, as that would cause even more damage!!! Fascinating stuff.

Maybe we can make our own repair for this, without the original component?

Anyway, I'll see what Billy (my neighbour with the Brawa models) wants to do, and we'll sort something out.

Once again thanks everyone for you kind help and advice, happy Christmas and New Year!!!

 

[bondy]

QUOTE (dbclass50 @ 22 Dec 2007, 20:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Looking through my "small" junk box for something else I found a couple of screws of about the same diamentions. They have slotted heads rather than hexagon but they may get you out of trouble. If you want to try them send me a PM with your address & i will pop them in the post for you, after Christmas though - I've just received a Roco loco bought off eBay that although very well packed looks like it was dropped from a great height !

Hope this helps.

Thank you Brian, that is a very kind offer. It's just the one screw we need - don't want to take too many of your spares, as you never know when you may need them!

Sorry to hear about that damaged loco - very disappointing when that happens - hope you can sort it.

All the best,

Ian

 

[bondy]

Many thanks for that Richard.

It's certainly worth considering. I was thinking that there must be similarly sized screws or bolts used for other applications. My collection of fixings is for building work, so rather too big!

I did make very rough measurements for the bolt. I've actually got a micrometer, but it's an old imperial one that my late Grandfather used in the 1940s. I could easily convert the measurements to metric to get within a reasonable tolerance.

Ian

 

[bondy]

QUOTE (poliss @ 23 Dec 2007, 02:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There was a disaster where a coupling rod came loose, dug into the track and derailed a passenger train, then another train, coal I think, ploughed into the wreck. The cause, as I remember it, was a major design flaw with a nut that was fitted underneath the fitting instead of on top. Vibration worked the nut loose and the inevitable happened. If anyone can remember the details please add them. I read about it in a library book around 10 years ago. The loco was quite modern, a Britannia class maybe, but I can't be sure.

Here's a snippet I found on t'web:

Retrospective and critical

Tuplin's comparitive assessment that although an immense amount of information about design and performance of major and minor components of British locomotives was studied in preparing the BR standard designs, and although the indisputably expert officials responsible for them were on their mettle to avoid any ground for criticism of them by the other technical experts of the four former railway groups, defects nevertheless showed up. Although the boilers of the 'Britannias' were originally fitted with steam collectors specially intended to minimize the possibility of picking up water besides steam, this happened soon after 'Britannias' went into service and cylinder-ends were knocked out and pistons broken by trapped water. Later on, coupling-rods were broken when driving wheels slipped at high running speeds. In this condition resonant rotational vibration of coupled wheels and coupling-rods could produce so great a compressive load in a rod as to cause it to fail by bending horizontally away from the wheels. This it did because its I-section was very weak in that direction. The operation of forming the I-section by milling away material from a rectangular slab threw away 80 per cent of its strength in this direction. The remedy was to omit the milling operation and to use the rectangular section. The Great Western had found this out in 1906. Slide-bars in 'Britannias' were attached in a way that made it difficult to tighten the securing nuts properly. This was altered after loss of a bottom slide-bar from a 'Britannia' led to failure of the piston rod and connecting-rod, which fell and deformed the adjacent track at just the moment that caused a train on it to be derailed into the coaches behind the Britannia' (Settle, January 2lst, 1960, Bib. 33). Less drastic, but very disappointing after the comfort of the enginemen had been specially considered in laying out the controls in the cab, was the circumstance that the noise in the cabs was much worse.

British Railways standard classes

 

[bondy]

QUOTE (ME 26-06 @ 23 Dec 2007, 16:17) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Since my original post was deleted (which is fine with me, since I did get a bit carried away), I would like to repeat my offer to bondy:

I could get the spare part from Brawa, pay for it from over here, and send it to the UK to your or your neigbour´s address (at cost, of course; I don´t want to make a profit). You could Paypal me the amount, or send cash in an envelope, if the total exceeds EUR 10,-- (else, consider it a courtesy due to the spirit of christmas...

)

If you´d like to accept my offer, please pm me the invoice number and we´d either redirect that delivery to my address (for me to forward it), or I´d order the same spare part again under my name and address and ship it to the UK.

Thanks very much for the kind offer. Another member's already offered to do similar, so we should be OK.

I'd like to thank everyone on the forum for their help and advice on this one, and wish you all a happy Christmas and New Year.

Ian

 

[bondy]

Hello again - here's a final update on this topic.

72C has kindly intervened on our behalf with Brawa, and has now obtained the required part! He must've persuaded Brawa to show us some goodwill, since the damage was due to a fault with the product, rather than abuse by the customer. You don't expect bits to just fall off in normal use, at least not on something so new.

I don't know how he did it - I couldn't get any response from Brawa after the initial request for payment, which as I mentioned earlier was impossibly high, especially if you include the bank charges. You'd have to be completely mad to even consider paying that. To be honest, they were telling us in an indirect manner to get lost!

If Brawa had made it easier for us to pay, we may have rolled over and just paid for the part, rather than go to all the hassle of arguing for a free of charge repair. Maybe they rely on this kind of weak customer behaviour to turn a profit - who knows?

Anyway, I'm glad that 72C managed to shake some proper customer service out of Brawa - an increasingly rare concept, almost universally nowadays.