Brit. Steamers in TCDD

3486 Views 12 Replies 7 Participants Last post by 7113, Dec 19, 2008

ebaykal

Discussion Starter · Dec 18, 2008 (Edited by Moderator)

The Turkish State Railways (TCDD) had a fair amount of steamers from all over the world.

Most of the stock was from Germany & USA, but a fair share was from Britian too.
The most celebrated British loco as you all know by now was the Stanier 8F of which we have covered a fair bit at this very forum. Its history is well known. However there are those which are a complete mystery and we have very few information on them.

I would appreciate any info/pictures that you can provide me with of these steamers. Their classes, numbers etc.

Most of all, it would be quite interesting to know that if any models of these exists, you never know I might start a separate layout in OO and run these along with the 8F

. The TCDD numbering system of the classes were quite different and we have no chance of knowing the Brit class numbers apart from the 8F.

I am compiling a list below of the British loco's in the inventory of TCDD so any help in identifying them will be highly appreciated.

3361 (TCDD Plate no.)

Axle: C't
Total quantity: 2
First year: 1888/91
Manufacturer: Stephenson
Ex ORC

3411

No pictures unfortunately, only info:

Man: Stephenson
Year:1911

Engine axle type C1't
Driving wheel dia 1384 mm
Front bissel wheel dia 1067 mm
Number of cylinder 2
Cylinder dia 457 mm
Piston stroke 660 mm
Boiler pressure 12 bar
Grate surface 1,77 m2
Heating surface 115,6 m2
Superheating surface n/a m2
Fixed wheel base length 4,65 m
Coupled wheel base length 4,65 m
Weight empty 51,8 T
Weight loaded 61,2 T
Water capacity 6,4 m3
Coal capacity 3 T
Overall length 11,1 m
Max speed 65 km/h
Tractive effort 9 T

4501

another mystery,

Axle: D1't
Total quantity: 3
First year: 1911
Manufacturer: Stephenson
ex ORC

33011

Only data:

Axle: C
Total quantity: 8
First year: 1889
Manufacturer: Sharp Stewart
Ex ORC

Engine:

Engine axle type C
Driving wheel dia 1384 mm
Number of cylinder 2
Cylinder diameter 477 mm
Piston stroke 610 mm
Boiler pressure 9,8 bar
Grate surface 1,5 m2
Heating surface 106 m2
Weight empty T
Weight loaded 39 T
Adhesion weight 39 T

33021

Total mystery

Axle: C
Total quantity: 6
First year: 1911
Manufacturer: Stephenson
Ex ORC

33031

Axle: C
Total quantity: 2
First year: 1868/70
Manufacturer: Swindon Ex ORC, supplied by ROD during WW1

33041

Axle: C
Total quantity: 1
First year: 1883
Manufacturer: Swindon
Ex Great Western Railway (GB), supplied by ROD during WW1, ex ORC

44091

Axle: D
Total quantity: 4
First year: 1906
Manufacturer: Stephenson
Ex ORC Rly

45121

Axle: 1'D
Total quantity: 12
First year: 1912
Manufacturer: Humbolt
Ex SCP Rly

Engine axle type 1'D
Driving wheel dia 1400 mm
Front bissel wheel dia 850 mm
Number of cylinder 2
Cylinder diameter 530 mm
Piston stroke 660 mm
Boiler pressure 12 bar
Grate surface 2,4 m2
Boiler pipe length 4,5 m
Heating surface 174,1 m2
Superheating surface 33 m2
Fixed wheel base length 4,9 m
Coupled wheel base length 4,9 m
Overall wheel base 6,9 m
Weight empty 56,5 T
Weight loaded 61,9 T
Adhesion weight 50,4 T
Load per driving wheel 12,6 T
Max speed 65 km/h
Tractive effort 11,9 T
Power (HP) 1010 HP

Tender axle type 3
Tender water capacity 15 m3
Tender coal capacity 7 T
Tender weight empty 15 T
Tender weight loaded 37 T

46101

Axle: 1'D1'
Total quantity: 6
First year: 1929/32
Manufacturer: Stephenson
Ex ORC Rly

Thanks

Baykal

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John Webb

· #2 · Dec 18, 2008

Dear Baykal,

The first loco - 3361 - bears a strong family resemblance to an 0-4-0 Neilson & Co design for the Great Eastern Railway (Class 209) and known as a Class Y5 by the LNER - there is one survivor, 229, which was at the North Woolwich Station Museum but was recently removed from there. The unusual shape of the saddle-tank is extremely distinctive. Could 'Stephenson' be a reference to the valve-gear used?

45121 - Humbolt - I don't recognise this name as that of a British maker. The loco, even allowing for a degree of Turkish modification, doesn't look particularly British to my eyes either.

Sorry I can't be of much help. I'm sure others will be able to come in with more information.

Regards,
John

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rossi

· #3 · Dec 18, 2008

Humbolt sounds Germanic .I believe there was a Humbolt in WW1 aviation ,maybe Glockner Humbolt ..but I am very old so could be wrong and almost certainly am .

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ebaykal

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 18, 2008

John thanks for the info.

If any help :

Sharp Stewart: Sharp Stewart & Co Ltd, Manchester and Glasgow, UK
Stephenson : Robert Stephenson & Co ltd, Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Darlington, UK or ??
Robert Stephenson & Hawthorn ltd, Newcastle and Darlington, UK
Swindon : Swindon works, Great Western Railway, Swindon, UK

John & Rossi, you both are correct on the Humboldt. Seems we have uncovered a big mistake done in the "Camlik Museum". The plate infront of the Loco states that it is manufactured in Ingiltere ( England):

..infact it is German!

Thanks, hope we make more discoveries as we go along...

Baykal

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dwb

· #5 · Dec 18, 2008

Following the "sounds like" theme, there is also "Humboldt's penguin" (Wikipedia entry) but I think only St, Laurent has a strong link between penguins and railways?

David

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72C

· #6 · Dec 18, 2008 (Edited by Moderator)

If I recall correctly Humbolt Lokfabrik was located at Chausseestrasse 8 Berlin, the company eventually combined with Deutz to become Klöckner-Humboldt-Deutz AG

In 1903 Sharp, Stewart amalgamated with the Glasgow firms Neilson, Reid and Co and Dübs and Co to form the North British Locomotive Company.

The 'Swindon'-built loco is a Dean Goods or 2301 Class, they were requisitioned during the First World War to be operated by the Railway Operating Division (ROD) Almost every exGWR locomotive is labelled as built in Swindon however Swindon was a relatively modern works site and many GWR locos were built in Wolverhampton.

Wolverhampton railway works built 280 of these locomotives between 1883 and 1899 to a design of William Dean. The class had the 0-6-0 wheel arrangement. The 2301 class broke with previous GWR tradition in having inside frames only and changes were made in the boiler design during the period that they were being built. The first twenty engines were originally domeless though all were provided with domed boilers in due course. They were numbered 2301-2580.

Are you aware of the book TCDD Yatakli Vagon by George Behrend, really great book and not expensive.

http://www.locomotivesinternational.co.uk/...aklivagon.shtml

Tim

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ebaykal

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 19, 2008

Thanks Tim,

I presume the Dean goods , 2301 - 2580 are the corresponding 33031/33041 TCDD plates. Great.
Any available pictures ?

Baykal

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ebaykal

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 19, 2008

I almost forgot this one. Stands in front of Haydarpasha station. 23001 without tender

Axle: 1'B
Total quantity: 6
First year: 1884
Manufacturer: Sharp Stewart
Ex ORC

Engine axle type 1'B
Driving wheel dia 1371 mm
Number of cylinder 2
Cylinder diameter 406 mm
Piston stroke 558 mm
Boiler pressure 9,8 bar
Grate surface 1,3 m2
Heating surface 71 m2
Weight loaded 31 T
Adhesion weight 20 T

Baykal

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72C

· #9 · Dec 19, 2008

Erkut,

Google 'Dean Goods' and you find lots of info including fotos of ROD locos during WW1.

What other info do you need and the book is on order!

Happy to help

Tim

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ebaykal

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 19, 2008

Thanks Tim,

Can we assume this is it? The 33031/33041.

Baykal

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Ravenser

· #11 · Dec 19, 2008

That's a Dean Goods alright

however 33031 is a slight mystery because the build dates quoted are too early for a Dean Goods: was some earlier type of GWR 0-6-0 also requisitioned by the ROD during WW1? Or are these two perhaps tank engines for shunting??

The other locos were built by private locomotive builders and may well have been designed specifically for the Turkish railways and supplied new . Thus we would not recognise them in the UK, and there would be no British class numbers

46101 certainly looks like it was an export order - there were very few locos with that wheel arrangement in the UK (a couple of small classes on the LNER - P1 and P2 - built by the railway itself) , and I'm quite certain from the photo that the loco is different from any type owned by the British mainline companies

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ebaykal

Discussion Starter · #12 · Dec 19, 2008

QUOTE (Ravenser @ 19 Dec 2008, 13:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>....The other locos were built by private locomotive builders and may well have been designed specifically for the Turkish railways and supplied new . Thus we would not recognise them in the UK, and there would be no British class numbers

46101 certainly looks like it was an export order - there were very few locos with that wheel arrangement in the UK (a couple of small classes on the LNER - P1 and P2 - built by the railway itself) , and I'm quite certain from the photo that the loco is different from any type owned by the British mainline companies

You might have a very good point there.They might be commissioned.

Now this is a bona fide Br50 isn't it ?

But instead of Germany it was manufactured by Vulcan Foundry & Beyer Peacock UK. Simply commissioned.
This also might be the case of the 46101.

Also at the beginning of the thread we ruled out the Humboldt as being German. But the Museum Plate says otherwise.
Can this loco be a commissioned loco too!?

Baykal

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7113

· #13 · Dec 19, 2008

Hi Baykal'

A fascinating subject. I think the tank on the first loco is known as an ogee, and I feel sure I have photos of similar locos in UK industrial use.

QUOTE (dwb @ 18 Dec 2008, 20:45) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>but I think only St, Laurent has a strong link between penguins and railways?

Get everywhere don't they!

Regards

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