Model Railway Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

21 Posts
Hi everyone, up to now my only thread was about an HOe Rack layout I was thinking about building sometime, I have decided to put that on hold for now as my Modern Image intrest has kicked back in with a vengance!!!!

it all started when I spotted Hornbys Pendolino then found out it used to belong to Dapol, then saw the Bachmann Voyager & super voyager, and noticed all the HST liveries that Hornby are doing with their class 43 sets, as well as the GNER 225 revised livery.

Now I want one ! big time, have limited space to build a layout will of course have to set track type track geomertry to keep it simple, as i will be moving in the next couple of years to somehere more permament, and hopefully more space to play with, so the layout will probably need to be dismantled later on.
I will have to stick to radius 2 and three for an oval of track, I want to build a continous run with up and down line and put a terminus station in the centre of the board, spotted a similar track plan in pecos plan book. I would like to keep it DC powered at the start wit hthe option of going over to DCC later on,if thats possible.
Thats the easy bit done , now rolling stock. this is where I need help

I bought a cuple if Train mags the other week at Euston Station, I went to have a look at Mr Bransons new train set, on the southern end of the WCML, Boy I want one of those for starters!
Having now gleamed info from the press and the inter net about the TOC's and leasing, franchizing, refurbishment etc, I am now even more confused than before!

I will list the HST/DMU rolling stock by TOC like the look of and any quieries I have (now the fun begins)

Super voyager
none of these are out in the shops yet
Class 86/7 and class 90 with Mk 2 and mk3 rakes with DVT's in older livery. always liked these, and had a BR rake with an 86 years ago

only question about the Virgin models is . Are Hornby now releasing ex Lima mk3 coaches or are they still sticking to their own shorter coaches, if so I will wait until they do/ he he he

Midland Mainline

Hornbys Midland Mainline HST Packs in the MML latest livery

Are these using ex Lima Mk 3 coaches , so above

There seems to be two packs out at the moment, one is around £19 cheaper than the other Why. any ideas?

It seems to me that Midland Mainline franchise is stable at the moment, So no fear of investing in one of the Horby HST Packs and getting all the coaches together , before the franchise runs out and they all get relivered again!


The Hornby GNER class 91 225 set in the GNER Mallard revised livery
I like the look of these, then read that GNER was in trouble and could loose its franchise soon, with the possiblity of Vigin running them in the short term, GNER logos removed off all the rolling stock untill a new biffer could be found.

Q do I wait for this to happen, and wait for Hornby to catch up with yet another livery change ?

First Great Western

FGW HST Train pack is being released later in the year by Horby, The current ones are or maybe out of date with the current livery, the coaches to go with it are current, I think?, but I have seen refurbished FGW HSTs in a newer livery and with MTU power packs. very trendy iy is too, is this the one that hornby are going to release or it it the pre MTU stock with the gold stripe ?

Night Riveara Sleeper

I see that Bachmann do a decent class 57 hornby are sticking to a class 47 and Helgan are doing a 57 but i have herd a few bad things about the likeness of them comapred to the Bachmann locos.
Coaching stock
Hornby do mk2d in *** packet livery, but no Mk3s either sleeper or day coaches in this livery yet, I have seen some Lima mk3s FGW sleepers on E-Bay and there being snapped up one went for £116.00!!!!
I would like to get one but will wait for Hornby to chuck out the Mk3 coaches in this livery first, they would be stupid not to relaease this scheme as its popular

First Group Night Caledonian Sleeper

Being released by hornby as a train pack, saw a photo of it on the net and didnt down load it

it was a class 90 and 3 mk3 sleepers all in matching livery, the real one has also got M2e coaches or it might be mk3 day coahes as well, hope hornby release these later as well

OK if you have read this far you know whats coming next,

I get paid next week, which train pack do I buy first which isnt going to be out of date with the livery or the coaches are to short. ?

21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Oh and I forgot one More

One Anglia

Class 86
Class 90
Mk3 coaches and a DVT

yes I like too but would prefer to get one of the others first

One of the virtues of living in London is that you can get to see all of these liveries in one day, abeit in different Stations, some of course are only a stone throw from each other, Euston, St Pancreas, and Kings Cross,
Paddington and Liverpool Street are in opposite directions ,
but hey thats why I have a motorbike for innit LOL

763 Posts
Right, deep breath.


Bachmann do a very nice Voyager in OO - its a recent model , runs very nicely and is not too expensive - a 4 car set will cost you about £80-90 to assemble

Hornby are promising us a OO Pendolino in a few months time : not a "high spec" model , but they have stated it will have a powerful enough mechanism to shift a scale length train and it will be DCC Fitted. First photos suggest somethign a great deal better than Dapol's rather poor effort of a few years back
And sufficient coaches will be available to run a scale 9 car formation.

But if space is tight , you probably can't manage 9 cars


Hornby are releasing the ex Lima power cars this year. Their current Mk3s were tooled up a few years ago and are scale length . They have also now released the missing TGS - ex Lima model

Back up power are the Meridian units - Voyager derivatives, but sufficiently different for Bachmann to say they won't do them. Nobody as far as I know has yet been brave and bold enough to try hacking a Bachmann Voyager into a Meridian. MML transfers are NOT available

Before the Meridians, the semi fasts were cl 170 Turbostars - and Bachmann have done their Turbostar in the old MML green. The Bachmann Turbostar is a very nice recent model , runs well , but requires hardwired DCC

As noted the key items of stock are available. Bachmann do Turbostars in the old Anglia livery , and I think in One colours

Now for the first hidden issue - suburban EMUs

WCML: Bratchell Kits do the 321. Its a fairly simple kit as kits go , and accurate . Its also expensive, and painting it in Silverlink livery is the most difficult part of the whole job , by a country mile. Nobody does a Desiro, or a 313 - even as a kit, and don't hold your breath unless you're into suffocation


Nobody does a 319 . Nobody is likely to do a 319 in the near future. That rules out everything south of Bedford


A 365 Networker might be butchered out of a generous supply of Hornby 466 3 rail Networkers. Bratchill kits have just announced their intention to offer a 317 , subject to sufficient interest. There's no 313. Don't hold your breath. Plenty of units are in WAGN purple livery which should be possible to paint


317s work the Cambridge line, and as noted Mr Bratchill threatens us with a kit - most of these are in WAGN purple, or at least the refurb white and black, some in new One colours. On the GE main line, 321s are the backbone of outer suburban services but FGE livery is even worse to do than Silverlink. Bratchill's painters even refused to do it at first , but they will now supply a ready built Bratchill 321 in FGE for well over £200
Only 321 446 currently carries One livery - but the 4 cl 322 units did return for a few months at the start of the franchise , and the white and yellow livery might be attempted by ordinary mortals . One livery is one of the less impossible liveries to paint if you are good with an air brush.

There's no 315 (see 313) This rules out modelling anywhere south of Shenfield. No Desiros and no 312s (which they replaced.) Don't hold your breath

The line sees extensive container traffic from Felixstowe, mainly Freightliner (86, 90, 66) with some GBRailfreight. (66) The only 60' flat is the extremely elderly and basic Hornby model. Bachmann do a good pocket wagon for 40'HC/45' boxes . Genesis do a whitemetal kit


Bachmann have just released the 166 Thames Turbo. But the Cl 180 Adelante (back up InterCity) isn't available, in any form and quite possibly never will be in either of our lifetimes

General considerations:

Most of these vehicles (except 321s) are very long, 23m affairs. They will struggle to get round 2nd radius curves, and I'll bet money they won't go throuh a crossover of Setrack points , which are horribly coarse anyway. Stick to Peco Streamline points and I'd suggest code 75 at that

Most of these lines are 25kV electric . Nobody makes ready made catenery. You are either into bodging something out of Sommerfelt bits, or scrtchbuilding.

If you can't face this , its MML north of Bedford or GWML

However I do feel the electrified GE is now crying out to be modelled, nearly all the stock can be done especially for the main line. It is probably the most compact - you could just about get away with loco + 7 + DVT - too short but not ridiculous - and 2 x 4 car EMU formations

Chief mouser
11,775 Posts
QUOTE (Ravenser @ 18 Jan 2007, 23:26) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Most of these lines are 25kV electric . Nobody makes ready made catenery. You are either into bodging something out of Sommerfelt bits, or scrtchbuilding.

Don't forget that Vieesmann also do overhead equipment which I seem to recall is considerably cheaper than Sommerfeldt.

This may be of use



697 Posts
As mentioned above, the Hornby Mk3 coaches were updated to scale length a long time ago, possibly almost 10 years ? (I think it was in the late 90's ?).
They are much better than the original short version and are widely regarded as quite acceptable.
The only major issue is that they have buffers which are not appropriate for HST's, but these can be removed easily.
Unless included in a HST set, the coach numbers are for loco hauled stock.

Hornby have introduced the ex-Lima TGS for the HST and the ex-Lima sleepers.
These have all had to be updated to match the better Hornby models, and include the Hornby bogies.

The significant change Hornby have made is the replacement of their HST power car with the superior ex-Lima model, slightly updated and with a new motor.
This is only available in the forthcoming train packs and is not included in current stock in the shops.
What isn't clear is what coaches will be included in these sets; Hornby or updated ex-Lima?

Hornbys Mk2 aircon coaches are dire. Ancient toy train stuff. Avoid!
Hopefully Bachmann will eventually get round to producing high quality versions of these as they work their way through the various BR coaches. Hopefully next year!!!!!!!

Bachmann have produced both the 4 car Voyager and the 5 car Super Voyager.
These have been released in batches and when sold out you will have to wait for quite a while before any more are produced. I don't think we will see any more for a long time, so buying second hand may be the only option.
They do a 3 car version of the Voyager as part of a train set and you can buy the additional coach to make it into a proper train. This seems to be more widely available.

Voyagers released:
Maiden Voyager
Grampian Voyager

Super Voyagers released:
Louis Bleriot
Michael Palin

If you are using Setrack, especially Hornby, you may get lots of problems with derailments through the points; especially with the Voyagers.
Second radius curves will also make all these long coaches look ridiculous, and of course setrack curves have no provision for transition /easement, at all (very "train set").
Code 75 or 83 rail would be much better, even streamline code 100, provided decent curves can be created.


21 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys for the infor and advice it will be put to good use, I do wish I could build a larger layout, but i just don't have the space at the moment and I want to knock up something I can run rolling stock on quickly, I have track so I might as well use this in the mean time, eventually I will be getting Peco concrete sleepered flexitrack, if another brand comes along in the mean time that I feel is better I will use that, The overhead wiring wont be going on this layout , it would get damaged in no time as i need to keep stowing away when not in use. But I will be installing it when i get somewhere more permanent to live, as I want to run a high speed track with full rakes,
While I'm waiting for Horby and Bachmann to release there latest batches of HST's I might get one of Bachmann's DMU's, I quite like the look of some of these in particular classes 168 and 170, I also notice that theres a lot of central trains livery around too,. never mind if the worst happens i will get a couple of Hornby pacers, I used to have one , it wasnt to hot on tight Rad 1 bends but it had loads of personality.

763 Posts
I'm dabbling with a small terminus project somewhere else which will use a lot of Central DMUs . It is one possible option if space is too tight for main line running.

Just a thought but the Virgin Cross Country network does overlap most of the main lines mentioned.

Thus Voyagers run on the GW main line west of Taunton , and between Westerleigh Jnc/Bristol Temple Meads (and Bristol /Taunton which they have to themselves)

The share the Midland main line from Derby to Sheffield, the ECML from Wakefield to Leeds, and Doncaster/York to Edinburgh/Dundee and the WCML from Birmingham northwards

Central also overlap a lot (though the franchise is being relet on a new basis) as they operate the Liverpool/Sheffield/Nottingham/Peterborough/Norwich corridor and B'ham/Stansted - 158s and 170s being the main stock used on this. I think they also operate the "relief" Nottingham /Cardiff service introduced to reduce overcrowding on Virgin Cross Country - think this is also 158s and 170s

A Voyager and a Central or MML Turbostar might be good purchases - relatively short, excellent models , and could fit into quite a wide range of scenarios when you have space for something more main line

342 Posts
Liveries change all the time you have only to look at central trains there are 9 differant livery variations on their turbostar that I have noticed so i wouldn't worry too much about the GNER livery being out of date etc.

It sounds as though you need to decide if you want an accurate model of a location or something that looks the part but on which you can run your favourites in the latter case just buy the stock that you like and run it
1 - 8 of 8 Posts