Buildings

4940 Views 27 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Grahame HHC, Nov 1, 2007

Asterix

Discussion Starter · Oct 25, 2007

I recently bought some Lyddle End buildings for the first time. I have now placed them on my layout. I think they look great, except for the fact that they look 'too small' compared with my existing Metcalfe buildings.

Are Metcalfe buildings to a slightly larger scale than Lyddle End or am I imagining things? If I'm right, which of the two is the more accurate?

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Richard Johnson

· #8 · Oct 28, 2007

Building accuracy in N depends on the protot6ype you are modelling - 2mm scale, EU/US N and UK N are all quite different scales as far as rolling stock/loco's are concerned. (2mm = 1:152, EU/US N = 1:160, UK N = 1:144 - as you can see that is considerably larger (1:144 is 11% bigger than 1:160)

Usually size wise (in 4mm scale anyway) the Metcalfe buildings are pretty accurate, so I suspect that Metcalfe are correctly using UK N scale or 2mm vs other brands possibly using 1:160.

Piko and Pola/Vollmer/Faller etc are of course all built to European N (or HO), so they will undoubtedly look smaller than Metcalfe if they create to British N scale....

Richard

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Richard Johnson

· #16 · Oct 30, 2007

[quote name='Grahame HHC' date='30 Oct 2007, 21:20' post='38265']
Not quite right - British N gauge is a scale ratio of 1:148 not 1:144 - that is a model aeroplane scale and out of interest Japanese N gauge is 1:150.

G.

**Always happy to stand corrected - The principal is the same though - various national prototypes in differing scales.. (Sorry for the error - the web reference I used was at 1:144 and modelling in 4mm scale I didn't see the mistake):

While we are being pedantic, gauge and scales aren't interchangeable terms... Japanese/UK/EU/US N *gauge* is 9mm: Its the "Scales" that vary

Richard

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Richard Johnson

· #19 · Oct 31, 2007

[quote name='Grahame HHC' date='31 Oct 2007, 02:02' post='38283']
Yep, you're right that scale and gauge aren't interchangeable but as the 'N' in 'N gauge' stands for 'nine mm' it means that 'N gauge' is okay as a stand alone description and that "N gauge is 9mm" is really tautology. Plus it's commonly acceptable to add the scale/ratio before or after 'N gauge' to help confirm both the gauge and the scale and thus the country; as in 'the scale/ratio in Japanese N gauge is 1:150'. Strangely in America they say/use 'N scale' which is more incorrect as 9mm is not the scale.

G.

***
N gauge really does stand alone I agree.

Its amazing how diverse this whole thing really is.... and how most of the significant abberations came from UK modelling! I often have a smile at the comments re model accuracy given the "way off scale" nature of track gauges for UK N, UK OO and UK O scales. (not to mention the atrocuiosly big wheel flanges in N and EU HO Scale)

As to the "interchangeability" of terms...

HO Scale is accurate terminology as both the gauge / scale are correct in ratio - 16.5mm gauge and 1:87 both translate to the same scale/ratio
N Scale is to me an accurate terminology but only for EU "N" and US "N", as in both cases gauge and scale translate near as dammit to 1:160th of the prototype correctly

as to the others, N Gauge alone is as you mention simple 9mm designation, as is HO gauge, but OO and O are not as there are variants.... 2mm scale is an accurate description of both the modelling scale and gauge.

For UK and japanese "N", an accurate description would indeed be a combination of N + the actual scale. Its even more of an issue with the larger scales... Internationally OO means 19mm track in USA and 16.5 in the rest of the world.... and O scale is a no-no as its both "tinplate" and 1/4" to the foot in USA and generally 7mm elsewhere - and yet again track gauges vary - with I think 4+ options between 1/4" & 7mm scales....

I am aware of the arguments but still... I do wonder WHY 19mm was never adopted for OO - Valve gear and the need for better wheel profiles would have been a much harder task for Mfrs but it would have made a HUGE difference to the consistency of the UK modelling scene, which is now fragmented between 16.5, EM and P4. Amusing to0 to think that if this had happened - for the purists - going to P4 would have actually meant it was easier to build a loco!!

Richard

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Richard Johnson

· #22 · Nov 1, 2007

We're well off track for building sizes aren't we

.

You said... and I understand that '00FS' champions want to adopt 16.2mm as their gauge standard. At least in N gauge it's all 9mm rather than the choice of 16.2, 16.5, 18, 18.2 and 18.87 or whatever ............

***Yes, the insanity continues in 4mm scale!

There is some sensible logic in using slight gauge narrowing thru pointwork, but its a compromise yet again to accommodate poor RTR wheel settings by the mfrs... The DOGA fine standard remains at 16.5 with 1mm flangeway gaps (similar to EM for wheel and critical turnout dimensions), and EM and P4 will always follow their own path too. The 16.2 movement is based on solid fact as far as running qualities with unmodified RTR is concerned but will remain a fringe movement I think...standard 16.5 won't fade away.

N is certainly the only RTR scale thats managed to keep semi-sensible consistency in track standards.... and yes.... The flanges are certainly far better than they were, but all are still visibly large - I sense a certain pique in your response but in fact thats definately not a criticism of the scale or those that model in it by the way, just a simple statement of fact, and an inevitability when the market includes a mix of track and modelling preferences.

As long as we all enjoy the hobby in our own way of course, this is all just words...

Richard

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Richard Johnson

· #27 · Nov 1, 2007

[quote name='Grahame HHC' date='1 Nov 2007, 17:17' post='38424']
Yep, it did, but we've wandered on a bit since. Most conversations do.

***You are right about the diesels - they generally look good and almost always run nicely too... I haven't sen the Farish Jubilee yet, but I'm sure one will cross my path sometime soon - I end up with most of them at one time or another assisting modellers with DCC installs and related issues.

I'm VERY pleased to see the progressive improvements with UK N scale overall - with many of the original Farish etc I do install work with, and given the many wasted hours of gentle tweaking some take to get an even reasonable result with, I am frequently tempted to adjust them with a 5 pound hammer

.

Richard

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