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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

Our model railroad club shall be visiting the " Camlik Steam Engine Museum" on the 12th of May.Lots of photos will be taken.

If anyone from our forum has any particular interest in any Steam Engine just let me know and I'll make an album of photos to them.

You can find the steam cattle below, although a bit out of date, belive there are new arrivals.

http://www.trainsofturkey.com/w/pmwiki.php...ms/CamlikMuseum

Cheers

Baykal
 

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Another fascinating link - some very interesting pix there. iI particularily liked the British 6 ton crane and match truck.

Thanks for posting the link, I look forward to seeing your photographs.

Regards

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Peter,

Just name Steams (I bet one is the Skyliner
) I'll do the rest.

Cheers

Baykal
 

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QUOTE (ebaykal)Just name Steams (I bet one is the Skyliner
) I'll do the rest.

WOW what an offer!!

Well where do i start??
first of all let me say that i am basically after measurements so i can create a faiirly accurate model. many things i can guess but measurements taken first hand are always far better than any drawing.
A sketch with dimensions if far more use to me than a scale drawing someone has done so if its easier to do a very quick sketch and mark the dimensions then thats just perfect.

If i am asking you to do too much then just do what you feel comfortable with. i dont want you to feel obliged. its far more important that you enjoy your day.

i will use the list on the page you linked too and work my way down

the first loco that interests me is 3405. i have no drawings at all for this loco (probably because we bombed them but lets not go down that road.....)
If you could measure the width of the loco buffer beam and measure the distance between the wheel centres. remember that the wheels are not evenly spaced.
If you could measure the height of the water tanks on the side. also i have no idea twhat the top of the tanks looks like. if there is some way you can get a picture of the tank tops that would be great.
If you could try and measure the length over all from buffer beam (NOT buffer head) to bufferbeam. if you cant do this dont worry. sometimes its just not practical.
i could do with some shots of both ends of the loco and underneath the cab.
I see that it has a double roof. i have noticed this feature on many middle eastern loco's and carridges. but i have never found out how the outer roof is supported.
if the light is good enough to show up the rivit detail on the tanks then great. if not dont worry about it.

I think thats about it for that loco.

3558
lots of detail pictures please. not fussed about measurements but i would like to see some pictures of the area underneath the cab.

3705
Wow what a loco!! i could do with some measurements of the loco overall. the width of the entire body underneath the coal bunker (across the rear of the loco) and if you can get up that high then across the coal bunker itself.
can you measure the diameter of the boiler?
can you measure the lheel centres as with the first loco.
apart from that its just a case of lots of detail pictures please. especially underneath the cab and the fittings on the boiler (air pumps, injectors etc...)

I have to go home now (i have finished work!!! yipee!!!)

More tomorrow.

If you dont understand anything, please dont hesitate to ask.

Regards

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Peter,

All dully noted.

Will do my best. Measurements I think won't be a problem cause there is alot of us and there will be at any moment someone around to hold the end of the measurement tape.

Any other requests from anyone feel free to drop a line.

Baykal
 

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Good morning baykal

It occoured to me that i have asked you to take measurements of boiler diameter on a few loco's. sometimes this is just not practial so there is a little trick! if you take a piece of string and throw it over the top you can cut a length that is the circumference of the boiler. label it (or put it in an envalope with the loco number on it) and measure it when you get home. from that we can worn out the diameter.

for 5701 could you do the same as for 3705. just a couple of measurements and a shed load of detail pictures please! please could you pay special attantion to the frames. i think this loco has open bar frames and i would like some detail pictures. particularly of the springs, perhaps (if you can get them) some measurements of the holes cut in the frames. this loco is very similar to a german loco so it shouldnt be a problem but if you could take a good set of pictures of evrything below the running plate and any fittings on the outside fo the boiler.

for 34068 please could you measure the wheel centres and the overall length and the width across the entire tender tank and also across the coal space. please could you take a picture of the top of the tender as i think it has polish style water fillers.

44041 please could i have a measurement of overall width and boiler diameter please.i would also like a measurement of the wheel centre. (i think the wheels are evenly spaced on this loco so you need only take 1 measurement. but if you could just check for me) i think this loco has simple plate frames. if you could just check that for me i would be very greatfull.

35002 please could you measure boiler diameter and the tender dimensions (as with 34068). please could you also measure the distance from the bufferbeam to the running plate. (from that i can work out the height.)

45132. i have no pictures of this loco so i am very intreagued as to what it looks like! if you could take lots of detail shots i would be very greatfull.

45161 this is a brittish engine so no problem getting good drawings but if you could take pictures of anything that looks non-standard they would be very usefull.

the same goes for 45172. they made plenty of them and drawings are fairly easy to come buy but there might be non standard fittings so if you could keep an eye out.

45501 Right where to start with this one? i think this is another case that the origional drawings dont exist any more because we accidently bombed them! the site you gave me has some good dimensiones but please could you measure the wheel centres and make sure they are all the same. please could you measure the boiler diameter and the size of the smoke deflectors. also the size of the tender and take as many pictures as you can! this loco has some quite distinctive rivit detail so if the light is good please could you take a picture of that for me. particularly on the tender.

46025
wow what a loco!! i am very jealous that you are seeing them in the flesh! please could you make a note of the boiler diameter and take loads of pictures!!!!! paying special attention to the frames (with springs) and the tender. this loco has a very distinctive tender. iof you can take a picture of the top so i can see the hatches/fillers...

46051. this is a fantastic loco but a pig to model. i dont think i will be doing this one any time soon but please take plenty of detail shots for mee. particularly around the tender and underneath the cab. this loco just shouts eastern european dosent it!!?

46103
please could you measure the length of the tender and take plenty of good pictures. this engine is one of my favorates but it should be fairly simple to model.

46244 this loco is especially important to me as i want to make no fewer than 4 of them! i think there are plenty of them left in the world but unfortunatly most fo them are in rather nasty places i dont really want to go on holiday (like Iraq and Afghanistan!!!!!)
Please take as many measurements as you can. paying special attention to the cab. i would like the boiler diameter and tender dimensions. please could you take some pictures of the top of the running plate. please can you measure from the outer edge of the running plate and the side of the firebox. please could i have some pictures from both sides of the area underneath the cab and the front of the firebox. and a few of the frames please. try and include the springs if you can and the places the springs are hung from. i believe this loco has open bar frames and so please could you measure the holes cut in the frames.
this is one of those silly occations where ther really should be a good drawing of it and there isnt one available.

55037 i think i can get drawings for this but if you could keep an eye out for anything that looks non standard.

56045
please could you measure the boiler diameter. and take a few general shots as i dont have any of this loco. i think i can model if from information i already have but please keep an eye out for anything that might be non standard.

56116 i am activly hunting the drawings for this loco (i know they exist and i know where they are i just cant get to them without the right piece of paper) and so i dont need any measurements, but please can you take a good set of pictures. under the cab, frames, tender and smoke deflectors ect..... this is one of those engines that makes me proud to be brittish!!

56130 i think i already have a set of drawings for this loco but if you wouldnt mind taking a good set of detail pictures it would be very usefull.

56375 (the skyliner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Ok where do i start!? if you can please measure the boiler diameter (i think this could be very difficult but give it a go or take a best guess). please take some pictures of the frames. and the tender from all angles. if you can get a picture of the top of the rear of the tender that would be usefull (it might have a ladder ont he back of the tender-i dont know) and another showing the top of the running plate (i think it might be textured but i dont know)
Please could you measure from the bottom of the tender tank to the point where it starts to curve.
lots and lots of detail pictures please. (you can never have too many pictures of a skyliner anyway!!) please could you also check which skyliner it is? i have conflicting information and pictures. i think there might even be 2 of them there (is there another one lurking round the back somewhere?? 375 or 377??)

56523 keep an eye out for anything non standard but apart from that forget the loco. but i would like some good pictures of the tender. i think it was unique tot he turkish Kriegsloks?

56712. i have drawings of this loco but again, keep an eye out for anything non standard. please could i have a picture of the front showing the headlights.

56914 just some general pictures please. i dont think i will do this one but you never know....

57001/18/23 just some general shots please. i think this loco has plain frames but if you could just make sure for me. all 3 loco's should be basically the same but please make a note of any obvious differences between them and take pictures for me.

140 (the narrow gauge loco) i am only interested in this one because of a diorama i have planned for the baghdad railway but even on that it wont really fit. if you could take a few pictures for me but if time is pressing then dont bother.

My main interest is coaches and i note on the page you gave me it mensiones "a two axles car" if it is still there please could you take some pictures and measurements for mee. and make a note of the internal layout (if it still has one!!). i find it very difficult to get information on coaching stock in turky (plenty of people seem interested in loco's but coaches are often neglected) so fi you happen to see any please take me some pictures. they are like my chocolate!!

If you have any questions please dont hesitate to ask.
Because of the quantity of the pictures it might be better to just burn them onto CD. if you let me know when you get back i will give you my adress. i will make sure you get something in return.

How many of you are going?
lastly have a great trip. maybe next time i will get to go with you.

Regards

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wheeew,

Peter, shall keep us quite busy.
We are abt 15 and pictures of all engines will be taken for our clubs archiving purposes so I see no problem.

Next year await you and family down here as a matter of fact anyone else from our forums is all welcomed.
I can arrange everything from lodging to travel.

If anything comes in my mind regarding measurements shall revert back to you.

By the way how do you make yr engines?Scratchbuilt?

Take care

baykal
 

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hello baykal. i am fortunate enough to do some CAD work for etching and so i can often sneak an extra part in here and there. i like to think of it as scratchbuilding but its really kit building but i also make the kit! the upside of this is that one day it might be possible to market my own models under my own badge. i have done a few coaches and am working on EMU's and i have just about finished drawing the chassis for our first loco.

I am very carefull to collect as much informatin as possible. paritcularly from countries where it has not been traditionally available (like Russia, China and the middle east) because like camlik the loco's are outside and they wont last forever. if people like me dont collect this data then its quite possible that nobody will and it will be lost forever. i think railway modelling will grow dramatically in the eastern block and asia over the next few years. i want to have a small slice of that cake!

Peter
 

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Baykal,

I am interested in the loco illustrated on the ticket:

Quote: "Until 2000, the museum entrance ticket showed a drawing of TCDD engine 23001 (The original is in front of Haydarpaşa)."

This looks like another loco of British origin. Have you any information on this one please>

Colombo
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Colombo,

Seems Peter has got it all right.
Yes its one of the early British engines with a nice picture that he has posted.
There is as far as I know just one left and is on display infront of the Haydarpasa station on tha Asian side of Istanbul.

Baykal
 

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Baykal,

That really is a nice little loco and clearly it is being well looked after. Presumably it hardly ever rains there and somebody dusts it regularly. I do hate to see locos from that period rusting away as they are so scarce. A hot dry climate is a good place preserve locos.

Recently the Belgian National Railway Museum cut up an 0-6-0 tender engine almost identical to McKintosh off the Caledonian (I think) because it was in the way of a car park extension. A group of British enthusiasts offered £20,000 for it but the museum curator ignored them and accepted an offer of 1 Euro from a local scrap dealer. Their excuse was that they already had another one in the museum.

Meanwhile a genuine South Eastern and Chatham Railway tender displayed behind a wooden mock up of a GWR Single at Windsor Station near London was cut up to make way for a cafe extension. The Bluebell Railway managed to rescue the wheel sets.

If we do not protect our heritage, there will be nothing left for our great grandchildren to see. Neither should we corrupt our heritage by displaying items incorrectly; so Baykal, that pretty little loco of yours needs a tender!

Colombo
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi Colombo,

Unfortunately when it comes to preservation of national heritage you can well see us nearly at the bottom of the list.

If it weren't for a private entrepreneur there wouldn't be any Camlik at all.

We had loads of steam engines from all over the continent once.It was a heaven. Thanks to the state railways, they have all become razor blades. Its a pity. A whole new generation of people/kids are well on their way without the slightest idea of what a steam engine is or looks like.

The British and the Germans when it comes to preservation are both on top of the list actually.

As for the loco's in Camlik, they are pretty well looked after, painted regularly after the take over.

Cheers
Baykal
 

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oah no!!! i just finished writing this reply and i pressed a button and-gone!! damn!!

its always interesting to note how different countries look after their heritage. as some of you know i spend alot of time in china and there the word "preservation" really dosent translate at all.
things are only preserved if they make the government money.
the new railway museum in beijing is a prime example. its only 4 years old but already its showing serious signs of neglect. the grounds are overgrown and the rolling stock is not being looked after.

Even the historic city walls did not escape comunism. they were pulled down to make way for an 8 lane ring road.

I should note here that i understand there was a big tidy up just before christmas and a couple of new items of rolling stock have arrived and the 2 asia express observation cars have at long last been brought indors.

I think we are on the opposite end of the scale in the UK. often restoring things when it seriously comprimises its historical integrity or preserving things when there is really no point. (do we really need quite so many 47's?)

I have done some basic drawings for you so you can just fill in the dimensions.

skyliner.
Its a bit difficult for me to do the rear of the tender as i dont know what it looks like! thats part of the loco that i want more information about.
sorry for the poor quality of the drawing. - have you ever tried doing a sketch of a skyliner?? its bloddy hard!!!
i hadnt noted it before but aas i was doing this last night i noticed that the boiler is more along the lines of CZECH 475's than american loco's. it has that distinctive bend in it. very interesting. i wonder if the americans knew this was a better design but thought the americans would prefer a more conventional design??



3705
fairly self explanatory.



Middle east
Again the rear half of this loco was difficult to draw just because i dont know what it looks like. i dont know the swidth or design of the tender and i couldnt put that on this drawing. just do your best.


Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
All noted Peter.

Hopefully shall return with lots of pictures.

Cheers

Baykal
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi ,

Just returned from Camlik. Was a beautiful trip. 30 degrees celcius.

Peter, Just to show you that measurements were taken:





and finally me in the cab of the SKYLINER




am a bit tired, I'll have to compile the photos shall inform you when they are ready

Cheers

Baykal
 
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