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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First of all can I first apologise if this relates to you.

I listed a Graham Farish loco on fleabay and the loco had been ran for 60mins in both directions to run it in and also lightly oiled like it also says in the instructions.

I had put in the desc that the loco was mint the only thing I missed off the sale was that I had to adjust the back to backs as there was a slight problem with it running on my kato track and once the back to backs were done it ran like a dream.

Now the person who bought it has messaged me back saying they are wanting to return it and wanting a refund because the back to backs are wrong for his layout and in his opinion I have over oiled the loco.

Now with regards to the oiling I never over oil my locos and I only use 1 or 2 drops if the loco actually needs it and in my opinion the fact the back to backs are such a small thing it does not warrant a full refund seeing as it is something that sometimes needs doing if you buy stuff from the dealer.

On the listing I did not say there was a refund policy due to a previous problem I encountered selling stuff on there but I don't think he has realised this.

Can anyone help me with this please as I've never had this kind of problem selling locos before. Is the back to back problems enough to expect a refund?
 

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Hi
A couple of things to consider
1. Is your sellers reputation important to you?
2. Was the item paid by Paypal

I myself rely on feebay a fair amount , so if a customer is not happy , I tell them to send the item back (you can always re-sell it latter ) and offer a refund less postage.
If I know that I have made an error , I would offer a full refund.(after item is returned)

If they paid by PayPal - yes offer the part refund
If they open a "Item not as described" dispute-- PayPal nearly always favours the buyer

One bad "feedback" can undermine the prices of the rest of the things you sell

Hope this helps
Zmil
 

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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 22 Aug 2008, 08:52) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>First of all can I first apologise if this relates to you.

I listed a Graham Farish loco on fleabay and the loco had been ran for 60mins in both directions to run it in and also lightly oiled like it also says in the instructions.

I had put in the desc that the loco was mint the only thing I missed off the sale was that I had to adjust the back to backs as there was a slight problem with it running on my kato track and once the back to backs were done it ran like a dream.

Now the person who bought it has messaged me back saying they are wanting to return it and wanting a refund because the back to backs are wrong for his layout and in his opinion I have over oiled the loco.

Now with regards to the oiling I never over oil my locos and I only use 1 or 2 drops if the loco actually needs it and in my opinion the fact the back to backs are such a small thing it does not warrant a full refund seeing as it is something that sometimes needs doing if you buy stuff from the dealer.

On the listing I did not say there was a refund policy due to a previous problem I encountered selling stuff on there but I don't think he has realised this.

Can anyone help me with this please as I've never had this kind of problem selling locos before. Is the back to back problems enough to expect a refund?

***This a really hard one to give definitive advice on. Basically Ebay is "you get what you buy" and there is no obligation to accept return of it if it runs at all.

Back to back is a GF setting and if he'd bought the same loco off the dealer shelf it'd be the same...

Oiling: defining this properly is a big headache. Light oiling means almost no oil at all. ie - pick up a bit on the end of a tothpick and apply to the bearing. A good "oiler" is made by cutting the end off the eye of a small sewing needle.

Put the shapr end into a bit of wood or a small cork as a handle. Use the "fork" thats left to pick up the oil - thats as much as should ever be used.

OIL type - sewing machine and similar light machine oils aren't good - they are made to flow everywhere and generally do. You need an oil that is designed to stay where it is put. Lots of previous advice on the forum already re this! Avoid Peco electrolube though - not really good stuff.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
QUOTE (zmil @ 22 Aug 2008, 03:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi
A couple of things to consider
1. Is your sellers reputation important to you? after an old buying mistake that was made which pushed my feedback down I have not had any negative feeback especially as a seller. So in a way yes it is really
2. Was the item paid by Paypal. yes the buyer paid for the item through paypal

I myself rely on feebay a fair amount , so if a customer is not happy , I tell them to send the item back (you can always re-sell it latter ) and offer a refund less postage.
If I know that I have made an error , I would offer a full refund.(after item is returned)I don't believe that the back to backs is an error on my part as it was wrong when I got it and I corrected it so it runs on my kato track. I mean how am I to know that it doesn't run on peco track which I would have thought was the same to be honest

If they paid by PayPal - yes offer the part refund
If they open a "Item not as described" dispute-- PayPal nearly always favours the buyer

One bad "feedback" can undermine the prices of the rest of the things you sell

Hope this helps
Zmil

the last thing I want to do is spoil my selling reputation but looking at the sale again am I within my rights then to refuse the refund seeing as it wasn't offered when I listed the item? The buyer has just decided to message me saying he was going to send the item back without asking if it was alright or not. Without trying to workout a solution that will be ok for both parties.
 

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Hi Harkins

It sounds like you have a problem buyer , who will not be happy with any solution , so expect the worst
ebay and paypal have put the power in the buyers hands
Look at the buyers feed back , see if he has had other complaints
and look at the feedback he has left others
but expect trouble regardless , some people are never happy

On the other note I was not saying you had made a mistake, I had previously with a description (By the way I don't offer refunds ether in my description) made an ommision which I felt gave my buyer reason to complain So I offered a full refund

He gave glowing feedback - and has since bought other items and help push the price up , of other listings

The loco he returned I repaired and re-listed , Sold for 30% more the next time around

Regards Zmil
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well I sent him a message early this afternoon and also one before I went to work on nights 210808 and I hadn't recieved a reply to the message I had sent in reply. I'll see when I get home today at 8am if he has replied and I'll let you know what he has to say if he's replied. I would like to know what he has said but the works computer has a lock on it that won't let me check my personal things even when it's serine and peacefull ( we never use the Q word even when at work as it normally sends things nuts).
 

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If he starts a dispute, Payal will not even investigate it. They are only interested if it doesn't turn up as its impossible for Paypal to judge the condition of an item.

It happened to me with a rallycross RC car. We discussed the condition of the car over the phone. The guy wasn't happy with the condition of the car and I refused to accept the car back. He opened a paypal dispute and I continued to refuse. He raised the case to paypal judgement (or however it is termed) and they closed the case immediately.

If you want to keep things friendly then take it back and refund him for all fees execpt returning postage. If you want to stick to your guns let him raise a dispute. I'd be amazed if they did anything.

Just to note have you checked ebay new fee structure? Its already too high and its getting worse. Time for a new auction site IMO.
 

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QUOTE (harkins77 @ 22 Aug 2008, 04:42) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Well I sent him a message early this afternoon and also one before I went to work on nights 210808 and I hadn't recieved a reply to the message I had sent in reply. I'll see when I get home today at 8am if he has replied and I'll let you know what he has to say if he's replied. I would like to know what he has said but the works computer has a lock on it that won't let me check my personal things even when it's serine and peacefull ( we never use the Q word even when at work as it normally sends things nuts).

Hello.
When the loco arrives back, check to see if it's as you sent it. If it is give him a refund less your postage costs & say you are sorry that the loco didn't meet his expectations. You can always relist the loco.
If you feel the loco has been interfered with in any way refuse to give a refund & report the buyer to E bay. Sometimes mistakes are made by both Sellers & Buyers & the best way is to give a refund if a genuine mistake has been made. Don't leave any feedback at all unless he leaves feedback which slates you in some way.
 

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Hello
A few things. No matter what you say on your listings if it disagrees with Ebay and Paypal conditions it's meaningless.

Second, as you are a private seller, unless the buyer can prove that the item was significantly not as described then they will lose any dispute. To prove this they would have to take it to an expert, get a signed statement and fax it to Paypal. They buyer would then have to wait until Paypal told them to return it at their own expense.

Thirdly, if you don't refund the buyer can still leave you a neg. Depending upon how much you sell this could affect your selling ability.
You could pull their contact details and phone them to sort out the problem amicably. Explaining how to adjust the back to back gauge etc.
As for the track gauge, I have both Kato and Peco track and the gauge is the same.

You could do one of three things. Offer a partial refund. Offer a full refund minus postage. Stick to your guns and offer no refund at all but be prepared to recieve a neg.
 

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Hi All

I just discovered another mistake I made with a repeat Ebay customer
He asked a question about an item (a Fleischmann 5511) having a swing roof as there was not one in the photo

I messaged back that it doent

The spell checker spotted the mistake and I changed it to does

so when he received it he messaged me to say where is it

Now the 5511 ore wagon has never come with a swing roof but has the holes in place for it
as it has the same tooling as another model that does (5510)
So I offered the buyer a $10 discount on his next purchases as I believe I had misinformed him

and since he has bid on quite a lot of my items , over the last few weeks , I believe a happy buyer is a good repeat buyer

Maybe I'm old fashioned , but I believe " the customer is always rite" (especially when I was wrong)

But I think in Harkins case He has a over fussy buyer , that will never be satisfied

Regards Zmil
 

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Hi

I have a lot of very nice stuff which I am planning to sell on ebay soon. I am concerned that I will not describe correctly and I am also concerned about travel to the UK. These locos have a lot of extra electronics in them and I dont want to end up having a dispute over a broken LED or something like that.

I sold my first 3 new wagons a couple of days ago and got $26.00 for them all. Just does not seem like its worth it when ebay and paypal take their cut after the sale.

Hard to say what to do I have only complained to a customer once and he offered to take them back, less postage.

m
 

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Hi Martin
That is the trouble with ebay - everybody wants a bargin It is hard to get the correct value for things

As for description - a picture is worth a thousand words
Sign up for Auctiva - gives you free supersize pictures , as many as you want to put in your listings
Take pictures of every angle - in your case for the illuminated coaches also with ambient lights low .

Here is an example of one of my listings
zmils listing

Since I started putting the extra pictures in - I get more people looking -and also watching-and more $ for the item

Regards Zmil
 

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QUOTE (zmil @ 22 Aug 2008, 13:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>But I think in Harkins case He has a over fussy buyer , that will never be satisfied
Regards Zmil
Yes, I've had a few of those !

For example - carriers lost the item I sold (an electrical heater),so, in spite of the buyer not wanting to pay for insurance I sent two replacements to make up for it & still received a negative for my trouble !

Thing is, if you do get a negative when selling make sure you reply politely to give your views - I often buy from people who have negatives, you just need to read between the lines & form your own opinion.

On the other hand I have bought a couple of items that did have faults not apparent in the pictures or descriptions, but after contacting the sellers sorted it out (by way of partial refunds & keeping the items - both sellers offered immediate refunds including the postage) so as far as I was concerned good deal & positives left all round.

Yes, you do get the odd deal that does not work out, but you have to put it into context when you think of the amount of deals that do work out well. Like it or no ebay is what we have - they really have got too far ahead for any other alternative to gain enough headway (a bit like MS really).
 

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For items bought using Paypal.
Insurance is for the sellers benifit, not the buyers, make it compulsory, not an option the buyer can choose.
Postage is at the sellers risk, not the buyers. If you cannot prove that an item was recieved by the buyer you will lose any Paypal dispute.
In the UK, if an item goes missing in the post, then the seller can be refunded for up to 10x the cost of the stamp used by claiming from the Royal Mail providing that they have a free certificate of posting. See http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content...mediaId=3100011 for details.
 

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If you need to make a claim for an item lost or damaged (even if sent insured) via the post make sure that you have plenty of time available to deal with the fobbing off/ducking & diving antics/obstructiveness of our wonderful postal "service" - my experience is that they will do anything to wriggle out of coughing up including the "lets drag it out so that they will give up & go away" ploy.
 

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Some people are never satisfied on Ebay, not too long ago i sold a Buhler boat 12V motor in good condition the guy got a bargain at 1.99 i paid more than that for it and never got round to using it,

as said here

** As for description - a picture is worth a thousand words **

this is true i took two good pictures to cover both angles of it set at an angle for maximum coverage, it had its mount fitted and yes one of the fixing holes was damaged but hey that leaves three good holes to mount screws to fix it down, being such a smooth motor this wasnt a problem as i saw it and mentioned the damage in the description so not to leave anyone under the impression it was perfect .... (best rule of ebay selling cover yourself )

I recieved a message to complain about the damage to which i replied the description and pictorial evidence was there and it was sold as seen in the listing, this guy was out to complain no matter what, then he had the cheek to reply that £1.50 carriage was too much i checked to see and it in fact cost me more than that to send, i stopped short of offering to go and fit the motor for him and told him he had got a bargain and if he could find it cheaper go and get it !!!!!!!!!!

I still sell on ebay and by and large most people there are fair and are not like this buyer harkins has come across.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
So after a weekend of no messages from the buyer I have finally recieved a message from him.

"Hello Kian

I took the model along to Taybridge Models (advertises in RM) for a second opinionand he agreed that the model was as i described to you on Friday. I would therefore be obliged if you could let have your instructions for the return of the loco."

Now I will let him slide that he has spelled my name wrong but I would be tempted to find out what the shop has done to find out how the model is not ok to be sold. If it is a case of them having to take the model apart to find out that it is not as described and if that is the case do I stand by my guns and refuse a refund as it has been tampered with since I sent it to the buyer. I have mailed the buyer again to clarify what the shop has done and when I get the model back I will be checking and taking it to my local shop to make sure no tampering has been done to it and that it is still in the condition I sent it to him.
 

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Hi Harkins
It sounds like a case of buyers remorse and he is making you pay for it!
What is the eBay item No. ?
Then we can have a look at the buyers feedback
It would be so easy for the buyer to add a few extra drops of oil and make out , it was like that when he received it
I received a loco once that was packed with a chimney full of smoke fluid , after traveling halfway round the globe it had leaked out all over the loco
I hope he does not neg you for it
Regards Zmil
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for that Zmil.

Here is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...O:IT&ih=018

I also received another message from him after I had asked him if the place he had taken it to had taken the loco apart.

Here is his reply.

Hi Kain

Taybridge is not a shop but a professional repairer and kit builder. He did not dismantle the loco but measured the back to backs and examined the wheels. He said that he would not be willing to alter the back to backs but could give me an address of someone who could do so.

The comment on the overoiling was based on the amount of staining on the insert and the oil wiped of the wheels/chassis - a loco I overoiled myself cost me a new chassis.

I just do not feel happy with the mechanical condition and do not think that the description given was accurate given that you knew about the back to backs. I will post the loco back tomorrow special delivery.

YF

Duncan

I have relented and said I would give him a refund for the loco only when I have taken reciept of it and I will put the loco back on again after resetting the back to backs myself. If this person he took it to cannot sort out a small matter of back to backs then I am better of re-listing it. At the end of the day what ever was on the packaging was from my hands (as this is a clean hobby isn't it!!!!!) whilst I was taking it out of the box whilst in my shed but the loco was in Mint condition and pulled really well on my layout when tested. I think i'll just put this down to experiance and hope he doesn't leave neg feedback for it as if he does I think my ebaying days are over as this occassion has really got me fed up with it now. I mean I have only had 1 problem and this is it and all my other buyers have never complained about over oiling of my stuff I've sold.
 
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